Archers thread #174: God it's lame! But it still limps on. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think Ben-meets-Zainab is on a par with Elizabeth-meets-Darcy, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @Bruisername for the title inspiration. She said God it's lame and that seemed to strike a chord with many, for some reason.

I am terrified of wasps and live in fear of encountering a hornet, so that was a tricky episode. I hope that's the last we're going to hear of them, except for confirmation that they've been nuked. [shudder]

So what do we reckon - custodial or suspended sentence for George? Will Clarrie return from Great Yarmouth or will she realise that actually life as a carer for her (presumably disabled) sister is easier than the endless and thankless drudgery at Grange Farm? Will any more tables collapse at the Village Hall?

Over to you!

Ours is dreadful. A smorgasbord of complaints about things people saw on their Ring doorbell ("A man crossed our lawn at 1.43 this morning!"), mislaid packages, "lost" pets that aren't (no-one seems to understand that cats roam, it doesn't mean that Tibbles is homeless), bin collections and the wrong sort of restaurant opening, as well as people who think it's FB so expound their views on politics, immigration and bus lanes. Oh, and the ones who are on the blag - I've had to block several who always have a sob story about why they need someone to pay for their shopping.

Back to Ambridge, I agree with @DadDadDad and @Eastie77Returns that Alice is going to forgive George, and quite possibly write him a character reference that will be the thing that keeps him out of the clink. It will be harder for others in the village to have their pitchforks out for him when the person who has most reason to be angry with him, isn't.

not so weird if it's a U-shaped street with more properties on the even side.
or of there is a block of flats.

Everyone seems to be making a big deal about these character references, but does anyone know if a few flimsy paragraphs about how George has got great potential written by people who will not be present in court are likely to have any sway?

Surely, George's defence would be better focussing on his other actions on the night - that it all happened only because of his good intention to get Alice home, that he was in a state of shock after his heroic acts rescuing people - and then his guilty plea and his contrition(?) over the distress caused to Alice would mitigate any sentence?

Since he will be being sentenced for P the C of J, Alice’s opinions are entirely irrelevant. (Yes dear, another thing that isn’t all about you. The world is full of them.)

@DadDadDad I suspect they take them into account alongside the pre-sentencing reports? I should imagine they will also form part of the defence's argument for George's sentence being non-custodial.

at the time Tom The Brilliant managed to persuade Justin to decrease the amount he was offering for the land.

Tom the Brilliant 😂 He lost his family £100k with his negotiations, didn't he?

There have been points when I’ve had to take a break from this thread as some of the comments about Alice have been really difficult to read and ignore - those of us with relatives who have suffered or died due to addiction can see a lot of nuance and have a deeper understanding of the challenges of what is a an awful disease, and to hear balance in discussing Alice as a character is much appreciated

It's good that you've taken care of yourself and had a break from the thread. Bear in mind that those of us who have had our lives impacted negatively by an alcoholic or two also have a deep understanding of the issues and therefore might have less sympathy for Alice.

I think Helen approached the neighbour. She worked out he was having an affair (somehow saw a woman who was not his wife going into his house/bedroom) and effectively blackmailed him into silence on the WhatsApp. It might have been Lee who saw the woman in the bedroom. Either way, it was ridiculous.

Very much against adultery, is our Helen.

Absolutely @BeatriceBatchelor - I'm very much one of the people you describe and have little sympathy for Alice on a personal level (I'm around her age actually, which is why it might hit a bit harder for me, perhaps) but on a societal level I think there is a lot of misunderstanding around addiction. What I perhaps intended to say was that I appreciated the balance that many on this thread bring to discussing her condition, without glossing over the awful impact of what she's done - what I meant by balance - perhaps this didn't come over well enough, but it was intended as a positive overall. I hope you weren't offended.

In a previous life I heard many character references read out in court and saw character witnesses in the witness box, for convictions which were going to lead to very lengthy terms of imprisonment. Sometimes it was real last chance saloon stuff and unlikely to make much difference - sometimes ‘scraping the barrel’ would have been a nice way to describe it - but I think the kind of sane, realistic references provided by Oliver and Pat are likely to be the most helpful kind for George, and could make a real difference. Oliver and Pat are pillars of the community and know him well. George is of good character, was employed, is employable, has skills and has a supportive family and networks. He is not an addict or a substance abuser, and he has quite a stable life. Statistically his chances of never being convicted of anything ever again are probably very high. The judge might be inclined to give him a chance with a suspended sentence or something rather than risking wrecking his mental health and damaging his life chances by sending him to a YOI.

I do think that blaming the framing for all of her issues is extreme as her alcoholism contributed a lot. I also think this is an example of class though as she is clearly more eloquent than George could ever be. But as pp predicted - Alice followed the Fallon route

How petty to expect Will to not go to the pub - mainly because stupid Harrison would be there. Good on Ed though for trying.

Oof, that was a hard listen. I actually felt very sorry for George.

And Will, too - it’s all well and good being black and white when it’s not you in the situation but how many people really would shop their own child, especially if they genuinely thought they could, in time, convince them to turn themselves in? Good on Ed for at least trying to reason with Lillian (who was laying the “Family Stick Together” thing on thick herself a few days ago) and Chris. Good job Harrison didn’t arrive before they left, though!

I thought the Alice/George scene was very unrealistic. It would never have happened. And I found the class element of privileged, educated Alice effectively bullying stupid, uneducated George very uncomfortable listening.

As @Bruisername says, Alice was already drinking before Bridge-gate. Indeed, it could be argued that if it had not been for the trauma of believing she had caused the accident, Alice would just have gone on drinking, so causing much longer-term damage to Martha than Alice's 3 week absence in rehab. She had already handed Martha over to Chris, IIRC, which means the disruption to Martha's sense of security had already begun. None of this seems to have occurred to her.

So she should really be thanking George for providing the catalyst for her to go back into rehab.

Well, if the scriptwriters' intention was to make me hope that Alice gets absolutely off her face, drives herself to court, crashes into the front steps and ends up both (a) very seriously injured and (b) caught, then well done them!

I didn’t see it as “bullying” at all. Why shouldn’t Alice make George understand what he did to her, just because she’s of a higher class than him? If I’d nearly ended up in prison for something I didn’t do, reading a statement would be the least of the things I'd want to do to the person who framed me.

Yes, OK, if Alice hadn’t been drinking she wouldn’t have been in a situation where George could have done that to her. Talk about victim blaming!

I have known a few people who have ended up being quite heavily into sharing self-analysis and examination of the wrongs life has done them because of their experience with AA meetings. It has always tended to make me less sympathetic than I was. I can see that it is helpful to them, and quite possibly a life saver, but other people (like George) have feelings too.

Totally - someone I know went on a ‘self discovery’ course which involved them ringing all their family to tell them all the horrible things that family member had done to them and then forgiving them. Didn’t go down well

Alice was putting Martha second to the booze well before the accident

I think it was good for George to hear the consequences I just didn’t like how it was presented. I thought the vocab she used was verging on hyberbole

There's an 'I'm unusually sensitive, that's why I drink' line that I have heard several times. As I say, if it helps save people's lives, good, but it would be helpful if they were reminded everyone else is sensitive too.

Alice was putting Martha second to the booze well before the accident

Unfortunately that is the nature of addiction. I have known addicts, there is nothing - NOTHING - that matters to them more than their next fix. That is how the illness of addiction works.

I think it was good for George to hear the consequences I just didn’t like how it was presented. I thought the vocab she used was verging on hyberbole

But Alice was reading out a formal statement, and one in which she was required to demonstrate to a Court hearing the effect of something on her. You would write a formal statement like that in a different way to how you would speak if you were talking face to face.

I thought it sounded like an English creative writing piece for gcse tbh

yes my point on her putting Martha second before the accident was that it is disingenuous to suggest the break in the relationship wasn’t already happening

I’ve worked out why Marthurr was so distressed by the giraffes: with the sharp eyes of childhood, she spotted their purple tongues and they reminded her of mummy when she’s had too much Chateau Rotgut.

Alice was putting Martha second to the booze well before the accident

History being rewritten there.

I thought it was a bit rich too. The damage to Martha nearly entirely predated George’s (admittedly bad) deed. I get that she was trying to give him tough love too, to help him, but also she’s been given so many second chances for quite terrible things that I’d have expected her to be the one person to surprisingly have mercy on him. He’s a great actor though.

I think the SWs are so invested in the ‘this has blown up the whole village’ thing that some of it is slightly unbelievable - Ed being thrown out etc. The fact Emma had to call the police on her own son should have gone a long way towards mitigating it from their point.