Archers thread #145: The glue that held the Aldridges together is gone. Will they fall apart? Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Lillian and I both made the glue observation, so I thought that would be as good a way as any to kick off this new thread. We raced through the last one, for obvious reasons. This one may last until the funeral. Will Tamsin Greig find time to attend? I do hope so.

The poem Jennifer quoted in her journal is here: www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/43775/rabbi-ben-ezra It's doubtful whether the last of Jennifer's life was the best, but she had plenty to contend with all the way through.

Over to you!

There's something to be said for quick funerals and an established tradition - I was at a funeral yesterday of someone who died on Monday, and a funeral on Wednesday of someone who died on Sunday. No massive decisions to be made, and the family can do as much or as little as they want from now on in. There'll be a Mass a month after the death for anyone who couldn't get to the funeral or who wants to go along.

I am also puzzled, is Brian planning to keep the embalmed corpse in a freezer indefinitely? Also, is Brian in the not-so-early stages of dementia?

I don't see any signs of dementia.
I just see someone who is doing the equivalent of sticking his fingers in his ears saying 'la la la I can't hear you' because he can't face it.

Yes this. He's wrong, though, other people need the funeral.

It was the forgetting the row with Kirsty and Roy that made me wonder - and Alice hastily skating away from reminding him.

He hadn't forgotten the row had he? More thought they were in the wrong so he needn't apologise / he had made peace by helping them anyway / didn't want to discuss it.

I suppose Brian's going for direct cremation, but I don't see this as in keeping with his character. The whole SL of reactions to bereavements seems to be encompassing all aspects so the SWs are stuffing everything in, whether it fits or no.

I was a bit surprised by Alice's mentor? Not the words, but the tone. Abrasive much? I wasn't expecting the equivalent of a head tilt and low, sympathetic voce, but really.

I'm sure she realised early on that Alice is both self indulgent and liable to turn nasty when not being pandered to and decided to fight fire with fire.

I thought the tone with Alice was fair enough. Presumably they have advisors from AA on this storyline?

I seriously wanted to slap Brian, although i do get where he's coming from. He's never really acted like a proper father so no expectation that he'll start now. Just ignore that all his kids, Jenny's kids, are devastated, and he at least knew it was coming.

Lisa? meh. I thought she was bullying Alice, Reminds me of my boss "don't make excuses" when you're just stating reasons. And sure, Alice should prioritise herself, but she had a LOT on her plate. In her shoes? I'd want a buddy that didn't bully me.

I imagine that's the only way to deal with alcoholics though, to be harsh. Self pity is going to be the worst thing.
They can't risk being treated "normally".

Come on, Brian, get a grip! It must be unimaginably awful to have to face this, but it's not going to go away. I can't imagine Jennifer would not have wanted a funeral.

(Welcome, @LittleOwl, by the way! Don't be a stranger when your blood pressure returns to normal.)

Fink
Does she actually understand that single parents don't always have time to attend one or two meetings a week, even when they're not recently bereaved? That's not Alice making excuses!

Lisa, being a single parent herself, almost certainly does know what it is like being an alcoholic single parent staying off alcohol.

On the subject of no funeral, Brian may be a traditionalist, but he has also been being badgered and nagged and harassed to the point at which he has had enough. And there is such a thing as direct cremation: funerals are not actually obligatory.

Funerals aren't obligatory, no, but he has no place making that decision single handed; if they go down that route then the children at least need to be in on it. Having some sort of funeral is a default option, having a funeral without the body after a direct cremation is also possible, a direct cremation with no service at all is really not something that should be decided without thinking through what that entails, and discussing it with the family.

And I disagree that he's been nagged and harassed, although I know he sees it that way. There are details that need to be firmed up, and the children (probably quite rightly) thought that he would take a dim view if they did it without consulting him. He's burying his head in the sand and refusing to engage with the process at all, which means they have to repeatedly ask. It would be nagging if they didn't give him the chance to think in between, or had made it clear that they could plan it without his involvement, but he has avoided the questions and ignored their messages completely so that they have to keep pushing for an answer.

Talk about tough love! Lisa is coming across as really unsympathetic. And does she get it?! Does she actually understand that single parents don't always have time to attend one or two meetings a week, even when they're not recently bereaved? That's not Alice making excuses! I really hope she doesn't drink again, but she needs a better support network than someone telling her that she can make two meetings a week on top of working and parenting.

I think that's a fairly standard AA approach, and seems very sensible, for all the reasons Lisa gave.

It's not as if Alice is like many, if not most single parents - she has an ex who is delighted to look after Martha and whose parents will help out if he can't, plus loads of siblings and cousins around. It is hard to believe she couldn't make regular meetings if she wanted to.

It irritated me when Brian had a tantrum about people trying to phone when he was out with Noluthando. If all he wanted was a bit of peace as claimed, all he had to do was turn the phone off.

Yes I initially thought Lisa was a bit abrupt. But she made sense when she said "I'm not your friend, my job is to help you stay sober". And it's a common thing that when life gets busy and hard we stop doing the things that help us feel better. It's not just alcoholics - it's very easy to stop exercising/eating well/insert self-care of choice when we are under stress for any reason and actually that's when we most need it.

I do agree that Alice was stating reasons, not making excuses. It's easy to let regular commitments slip with all she's had on recently. But she's no use to anyone if she's so stressed that she starts drinking again. Chris is hugely supportive of her and I'm sure would, as pp said, have Martha by default on a Tuesday if that's when Alice's preferred meeting is.

I suppose the danger is that Alice stops thinking of herself as someone who needs to take these steps - there's probably a stage of recovering from addiction when you start to feel comfortable and as if you're just like everyone else. Whereas actually you need to keep working on it, and I think that was well done.

I imagine that's the only way to deal with alcoholics though, to be harsh. Self pity is going to be the worst thing.
They can't risk being treated "normally".

I get what Lisa (and AA) is doing. Trying to do. But i don't think a one-size fits all is appropriate. It is entirely possible to express sympathy and be firm without coming across as an actual bully.

Alice is already having a wobble. It is entirely possible that Lisa's approach might push her the other way than intended. But anyway. Maybe it will help, maybe not. We'll see.

As for Brian, yes. It's high time they all sat together and listened to what he wants and start from there.

I think Lisa's message was good, but she really could and should have delivered it with more compassion. It would have been easy for her to actually listen to Alice offload for a few minutes, sympathise with her situation, and then gently but insistently make the point that she needs to carry on with her treatment plan (daily gratitudes, AA meetings, contacting Lisa). It was just that her tone was so harsh, like 'life's tough, get on with it. I'm not your friend and I'm not here to listen to you; moan to your friends. You're failing, pick yourself up and stop making excuses.' Alice clearly needs telling straight that she has to get back on the treatment, but she didn't need such unfeeling harshness.

Surely if anyone were going through what she is, anyone decent would take time to listen to her, even if she weren't their friend. If an acquaintance of mine wanted to open up about similar issues, I wouldn't be able to cut them off and say 'I'm not your friend, talk to your friends about this.'

As for Brian, yes. It's high time they all sat together and listened to what he wants and start from there.

do you think Brian wants to talk to anyone about anything unless it is him wallowing in his loss? He certainly does not want to be approached with anything that requires decision or support from him.
he cannot deal with life currently (and as such just goes into attack mode)

maybe he is the role model of selfish behaviour that Kate models herself on? His way or the highway - I was not listening when she was young.

Perhaps it started a trend as I think I'm a bit younger than many posters here and it was always called sticky back plastic at my school.

I thought fablon was more for cheap crap fix, changing rooms style interior design.

Mind you, we also learned joined up hand writing and was in my 30s before I learnt the word cursive. (Though I had heard it in the Simpsons once.)

Ah shouldn't post without reading the full thread. I see this has been covered.

I think I was watching TV with @Fink

Side note, I once hosted a soft play party with my hair in a freshly cut mullet and the razziest of razzy vintage jumpers on.
A parent mentioned it was just like fun house and it dawned on me I was living my full Fun House fantasy. (Well except I was a contestant, or possibly the yellow twin in my actual land frequent Fun House fantasies.)

Now I've caught up.

I understand what Brian's doing. He doesn't want a coffin, he doesn't want a funeral. He wants his Jenny Darling and all the discussions around progressing things are infuriating.

I've been enjoying how all the people who have had success with him have been requiring or pretending to require his help.

Kristy and Roy, Will, but even a day out with Nolli. Not the stream of pity and questions.

I think it would do him and Alice the world of good if she could open up to him about how much she is struggling.

And yes the apple doesn't fall far from the tree with Kate, in a way I'd never appreciated before.

I too was surprised at Lisa's tone but the message was good. Clearly she does need to make time for her meetings.

she's busy yes and her reasons for skipping meetings were valid, but she should have had a work/ co parenting routine in place that allows her to attend weekly already. I can imagine it's hard hearing excuses from someone who has such a wealth of support around them.

But fablon was still more expensive than you’d buy your kid for messing around making models