The Trojan Horse Affair

StrictlyAFemaleFemale · 2022-02-04T19:06:07+00:00

Is anyone listening? It's so good! From the Serial team about the trojan horse letter in Birmingham about muslim extremists taking over schools.

ScrumpyBetty · 05/02/2022 20:19

Yes. Am on the last episode. It's extremely frightening, incredible and heart-breaking. I'm going to recommend it to everyone I know.

JLSal · 07/02/2022 10:26

I’m part way through this and it’s fascinating and depressing. The one thing I am struggling with though is how they have rushed over the issue with the dodgy science sex ed worksheets containing religious quotes and boys being told that wives can’t say no to sex. The teacher involved should have been sacked and the fact he wasn’t (no mention of him even being given a warning) is terrible - particularly since he went on to rape a student at another school he worked at (I think that’s what they said?) The motivations of the ex- teacher couple were dubious at best but that complaint was entirely justified. I also found the girls missing out on sporting opportunities due to lack of female coach sad.

Maybe they will come back to these issues in later episodes but I found it a shame they seemed to easily dismiss and minimise events that didn’t support their take that all complaints against the school were bogus. Obviously, these complaints weren’t evidence that the ‘plot’ was real but they are things that should have been reported to ofsted

1910username · 10/02/2022 17:59

Will start tomorrow, have started going for long walks in the morning and I need something like this.

Loved the first season of serial, not so much 2 and 3.

I’m happy this one is getting good reviews.

Original poster

StrictlyAFemaleFemale · 13/02/2022 21:18

I quite like hearing them reglect on their process, but I get so frustrated when theres no clear resolution!

OP posts:

StrawberrySquash · 13/02/2022 21:33

I've only listened to two episodes so far, and it's satisfying to have a few gaps filled in. I didn't particularly follow the story at the time and stuff I did read didn't feel like it was complete and gave you context.
But they do need to get on and tell the story - there's a lot of filler!

PrinzessinCressida · 17/02/2022 20:03

I'm listening but I'm only on episode 2 so far. I remember the story well but, like @StrawberrySquash said, this is very good at filling in the many gaps. Would love to discuss it but may need to stay away until I've finished to avoid spoilers.

WhisperGold · 18/02/2022 23:01

In my memory it was all true. I don't ever remember the media recanting the story.

Fascinating stuff but....

SPOILER ALERT

...underwhelming ending..

StrawberrySquash · 20/02/2022 12:16

The Observer has an article today, saying the podcast is bit one sided and has ignored some of the Muslim women who have raised concerns. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/20/the-trojan-horse-affair-how-serial-podcast-got-it-so-wrong?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

JLSal · 21/02/2022 00:48

@StrawberrySquash thanks for posting that link. That pretty much sums up what I felt about it. Hoax letter being used to bring in Islamophobia policies is awful. Some of the things that were going on in the school also awful. I just can’t accept that school was well run when some of the things teachers did went without consequence.

PrinzessinCressida · 21/02/2022 07:32

I haven't read the full article yet. I only finished the podcast late last night, and I didn't want to read it before I'd finished.

The article tagline resonated with me as it mentioned some of the things that had made me a little uncomfortable about the podcast so far. Having got to the end, I however don't see how those things could invalidate the enormity of what the podcast lays out incontrovertibly for all to see: the Government's opportunistic Islamophobia, the gazillion inconsistencies, the tribunal's "resolutionlessness" and their comments on the government's lawyers' shocking behaviour, the primary school timeline and the extremely dubious time and behaviour of its leadership team, the TA's arrest, and more I can't think of right now. It feels enormous and monstrous. How could all this stuff happen? How can some have got away with it with such impunity? I can't fathom it out.

Does the article refute any of this or offer any alternative explanations?

Seashore2018 · 21/02/2022 23:46

I searched for the Podcasts board for the first time specifically to see if anyone was talking about this podcast, and boom, it was the first post

I was really gripped by it: not just the main story (ie. who wrote the letter) but by the gradually dawning realisation by Brian Reed that so-called journalistic objectivity is a privilege that might not be afforded to everyone in the same way it is to him. That moment where [spoiler ...]

[spoiler ...]

Brian - who's obviously an accomplished and experienced journalist - says, with wonderment, something like 'This move to criminalise us, when we're not the ones who've done anything wrong - it's just crazy' and Hamza, who comes across as naive and inexperienced in so many other ways, laughs hollowly at him and says 'this is what everyday life is like for Muslims' just really got me. A moment of inversion where suddenly the polished professional turns out to know much less about how the world really works than the rough-around-the-edges recent journalism graduate.

I didn't think I could like Michael Gove any less than I already do, but this podcast puts his loathsome smarmy words and actions in an even more appalling light .

And I hope that parents at Rizwana Da's school (and also the school of the guy in Western Australia - where google tells me he's suddenly no longer listed as working ) start asking them some pointed questions, given that the pair of them aren't making themselves available to journalists.

Seashore2018 · 21/02/2022 23:54

Oh and also, wtf is up with a government solicitor who has committed an egregious act of withholding documents and lying about not having them being able to get out of facing the music by claiming she will be on a plane ??? Seriously?? She might have just booked a cheap flight to another UK city - it surely can't be that easy to avoid being called to account for something that surely should have had her disbarred. And the podcast hosts mentioned this once and then passed on to something else. It wasn't the worst thing that resulted from the whole horrific mess but I was absolutely gobsmacked that it was that easy for a civil servant and a lawyer at that to avoid facing the consequences of their misconduct . Any MNetters who work as lawyers in the civil service care to weigh in on this?

LangClegsInSpace · 26/02/2022 19:48

@JLSal

I’m part way through this and it’s fascinating and depressing. The one thing I am struggling with though is how they have rushed over the issue with the dodgy science sex ed worksheets containing religious quotes and boys being told that wives can’t say no to sex. The teacher involved should have been sacked and the fact he wasn’t (no mention of him even being given a warning) is terrible - particularly since he went on to rape a student at another school he worked at (I think that’s what they said?) The motivations of the ex- teacher couple were dubious at best but that complaint was entirely justified. I also found the girls missing out on sporting opportunities due to lack of female coach sad.

Maybe they will come back to these issues in later episodes but I found it a shame they seemed to easily dismiss and minimise events that didn’t support their take that all complaints against the school were bogus. Obviously, these complaints weren’t evidence that the ‘plot’ was real but they are things that should have been reported to ofsted

Just came to see if anyone was talking about this because I'm up to this point - the seven hour interview with the whistleblowers - and I'm really dismayed with the way it's heading.

They skim right over the horrific sex ed class, the girls being made to return from the school trip because there was a male tennis coach and the all male staff 'brotherhood' whatsapp group as if these were completely unimportant, and instead castigate the woman who whistleblew for nothing really, except her tone.

These are things that happened in non-faith state funded schools. I can't imagine how awful it would be if my daughter ended up in such a school simply because that's where there was a place for her.

All girls deserve better than this. All children deserve better than this.

Thank you for linking the Sonia Sodha article, @StrawberrySquash, she articulates my misgivings about this series better than I could and she includes links to other resources that round out the narrative, including the Muslim Women's Network UK statement from 2014:

www.mwnuk.co.uk/TROJAN_HORSE_STATEMENT_BY_MUSLIM_WOMEN_S_NETWORK_UK_113_resourcedetail.php

Can't believe the whisteblowers were named after being promised anonymity!

I don't think I'll bother with the rest of this series. The trojan horse affair did expose disgusting islamophobia in the tory party but I don't feel obliged to listen to several more hours of these angry beardy misogynists to find out if they have any new insight to offer, I'll just wait for any relevant news reports.

Toastfiendish · 11/04/2022 21:54

Bit late to the party but I've just listened to this, and then read articles in the guardian/spectator criticising as well as the vulture defence.

I feel pretty torn about it. Brian Reed is obviously an outsider and Hamza Syed clearly understands Birmingham and Islamaphobia but I didn't feel really that either of them understood British schools.

Most of the goings on in the schools were HR issues really which were dealt with badly by the leadership teams there, which were clearly flawed. The response from the government was clearly Islamaphobic, and appalling. I'm not defending the actions of male staff at park view at all but I have experienced similar attitudes in an all boys predominantly white school (chummy male leaders, obvious misogyny) which would have been of literally no interest to anyone at all. I guess my frustration was that they chose to pursue the "who wrote the letter" line of inquiry when as a teacher, I guess I was far more interested in lots of the other issues they picked at a bit - Islamaphobia in government/role of faith in schools/misogyny/what happens to whistle blowers. I sort of didn't care who wrote it. I don't think they are misogynist I think they just came at it from the perspective of shaping the format and wanting a big reveal at the end (Reed) and feeling utterly frustrated with the way Muslims are treated in British society and therefore not really interrogating the safeguarding issues/genuine problems in the school.

To be honest though, if you pushed at most schools behind the scenes you wouldn't find this necessarily but you would always find problems and basically complicated HR disputes. They are generally not that we'll run.

I didn't think anyone came out of it with much credit other than the guy who went to Australia with them and the solicitors they interviewed. The weasels on the council were the worst.