What do you want to hear more of - advice please!

[Frizzbonce]

There's an 'offers round' coming up at Radio 4, which means writers offer ideas to the commissioning people - afternoon plays, Saturday plays and Woman's Hour series. I've written some plays and series for R4 and wondered, is there a children's classic you'd like to hear/haven't heard for a long time?

And what about original plays in general. Is there a subject/theme you think should be covered, or is there a theme you're sick of?

One other thing. The controllers of R4 are mainly privately educated men so despite their public denials, R4 can be drearily middle class sometimes. I once wrote a series about girls comics - Bunty etc. Of course they had no idea what I was talking about, so my producer cannily left piles of Buntys, Judys' and Jackies on the commissioning floor which were pored over by the female staff. Got me a commission!

Anyway, I'd be interested in any thoughts you might have.

What do you mean 'drearily middle class'?

Is there anything I am sick of? Yes: Radio 4 drama. It is all* bad. Have you never heard the phrase "show, don't tell"?

• Apart from The Archers, obv, because that is bad, but only in a good way (although they are stretching loyalty ATM).

Sorry R4 - I didn't mean to be insulting.

But if 'all' the drama is bad why do you listen?

Why do we listen? The whole point of R4 is that you don't switch off.

I think I vaguely remember the series about girls comics. I have a vague memory that it was quite good, and somewhat unusual, which is why I remember it. Was it on as a woman's hour drama, or a 6.30 slot?

I think the issue with drama on Radio 4 is that on the whole, I'm listening to it doing something else. So I like to have something where, if I have to miss 30 secs or so, it doesn't put out the whole thing. Prob why I enjoy listening to things that are drearily middle class, as they tend to be easy to follow. I also don't really want to be pulled into a heart-rending story for 30 mins as I cook supper. At 6.30, I have had a tough day at work, and am now cooking supper, and just want to relax. And then there's the infuriating situation when you get in a car, hear 10 mins of exciting drama, and then arrive at the swimming pool and never know what happened.

I enjoy thoughtful dramas / sit-coms about groups of people that you can get to know through a series of events. I liked the 6.30 slot drama / sit-com about the Scottish woman who adopts her BF's baby, I like the one with the 3 sisters, Anna, Charlotte and Victoria, and I quite like Smelling of Roses, although I've now heard most of them repeatedly on Radio 7.

I'll have a think about children's classics. Have ot admit I really enjoyed The Prisoner of Zendra recently!

I don't intend to listen, frizzbonce, but (as GM says) Radio 4 is on intravenous drip and sometimes I listen by mistake. Usually regret it.
I cannot stand the clunky way they have to build descriptions into the narrative. For example, in a visual media you would show someone coming over the horizon and a character would say "Who's that?". On radio it is always "I can see a young man on the horizon, riding a horse and wearing foreign-looking clothes. I wonder who he can be?" And actors always sound like Actors acting, not real people.

The only drama I like are the half-hour sitcom things like Ed Reardon or Claire in the Community (although that is, sadly, getting near the end of its shelflife), which are character-lead.

Not sure there is room for a "children's classic" given the complete removal of material from R4, first moving listeners to BBC 7 (soon to be R4 Extra) and the new R4 Extra schedule has a cut of 75% of any material for children.

I have listened to some of the drama for Woman's Hour (not that I might be awake at 10:45 but hear it in the 19:45 slot), though the mad controller managed to wipe that slot with his damn 100 objects trash last year, and with the sort of cuts that have been hinted at (local radio for example, to cut 75m pounds a year) then the R4 budget which starts at 75m could be massively screwed by the idiots unless the BBC Trust can be forced to see radio as needing protection against budget cuts when the costs start so much lower than for TV channels, and some categories such as licencing for sports, films, etc.

Sorry, bit of a rant but if you know anyone with influence then ask them to push for increased budgets for radio over TV, to keep those who are housebound, elderly, and occupied (carers etc) where radio fits in but TV cannot be given the same degree of attention, not so portable, unsuitable for multi-tasking, etc.

Can I quote one of my favourite posters on MN on exactly this subject?

"catinthehat2 Sun 02-May-10 16:55:33
I am always in the car at 2.45 ish on weekdays and have to endure the unadulterated crap that is the R4 Afternoon play for several seconds until I can get to the off button.

Every day some average actors take on an accent of the past/the world/part of the UK and fail miserably to nail it. Not even in the same ball park.

And the writing is leaden and off the page, nothing like the spoken word.

And the storylines...fgs

I HATE HATE HATE them"

Please, whatever you do, avoid any of the Radio Hams Players having to 'do an accent' because let's face it - THEY CAN'T

In answer to your specific question "Stig of the Dump" and "A DOg so Small"

LOL @ cith2.

Here's a link to that thread. You will find that a lot of people cannot stand the drama. But there are some gems that shine through e.g. Fags, Mags and Bags and anything by Andy Hamilton. I think that the secret is to ignore the location/action (just think of somewhere generic that doesn't need describing, like a cornershop, and leave the rest to our imagination) and concentrate on the interplay between believable characters.

aha, thought you would be lurking

Can you do a social network play - MN on air?
I heard one once - it had to invent tricks like a computer voice for dates and times of posts , but given the ubiquity of forums (fora...) on the web now there must be a place for more than one treatment of it in dramatised form?

So,OP, to re-phrase what I said last night: you are asking the wrong question.

The question is not 'what'. Although we are conditoned by the schedule to be creatures of habit, it is not a case of "I know what I like and I like what I know". Look at the comments expressing delight in finding programmes on obscure subjects like village greens or anchovy farming. We will lap up anything providing that it is done well
So the question is not 'what is to be done', but 'how well is it done'.

re plays. I too have gone from seeking them out to avoiding them. It is the issueness of them. why do they have to be about some bloody topic? can't they just be for the sake of the story. and these dramatisations of political events are hellishly dull.

eric linklater, the wind on the moon. cracking story.

Yes, that's very true. Anything done well will be enjoyed. R4 is quite right when she says we have commented on programmes about very esoteric subjects, such as the goat one (great!) and the vicar and the men from Mars.

This is maybe rather a special interest group request, but I'd be interested in seeing whether Jacobean and Restoration drama would transfer well to the radio.

I have to agree about the plays, I listen to five live during the day but like to hear a good play on iplayer sometimes.

Recently I've really struggled to find anything that I can listen to - the dialogue is usually totally unrealistic, its not the content but the style that's wrong. Never do I hear people having conversations in the way do in the plays, its so out of touch now that its becoming a joke.

I'll listen to anything apart from period plays, just everyday good storytelling is what's missing.

GrendelsMum thank you for your nice comment about the girls comic series. It was for Woman's Hour so ran twice a day. 43 Years in the Third Form. The reason I mention 'drearily middle class' and again I apologise for any offence caused is just that R4 should reflect the whole of the UK but since the network is run by public school boys - anything outside their own experience can be hard to sell. So in my case, none of them had ever read any girls comics and didn't understand how important they were to generations of girls. Particularly BUNTY which was the first comic aimed at girls who didn't go to boarding school. So my producer left all the annuals lying around and of course they were picked up by the female staff and looked at. That's how I got that commission.

It would be great to have a play where all the characters happen to be from South London say but it's not 'deprived' families or social work or some sort of 'ishoo'.

I love Jacobean drama but we have been told to 'beware' the rustle of long skirts.' Also the blood and guts of most of them might sound almost comical on radio. Can you imagine The White Devil where just about everybody carks it at the end. You'd have a series of shrieks, grunts and death rattles. Actually that's a good idea . . . . .

R4 yes I totally get the annoyance over the 'who's that man sitting next to that red haired attractive woman at the bar. Who happens to be my wife . . ' acting. Clunk clunk clunk. I do find myself listening to the Afternoon play and wondering how in hell it got commissioned. And the thing is you have to jump through 200 hoops to get the damn thing on air in the first place. I've just had a AP commissioned a YEAR after I sent in the original idea - the wheels move sooooooo slowly.

Katisha - think the idea of doing a social network play is brilliant. Some of the threads on MN are so gripping - pure drama. And I don't even mean the ones where a massive problem is presented (I'm not sure of the ethics anyway) but the thread about what would you like to say to your enemy - no holds barred. Sorry - can't remember the exact one but it was page after page of all the things you wish you'd said to an in-law. Absolutely throat grabbing.

Loads of great comedy starts on radio. You've only got words - no props or big budgets to hide behind.

'Have you never heard the phrase 'show don't tell?'

YYY R4!!! My sentiments exactly! I know it is a challenge in radio drama, but it's not impossible. The Archers is bloody awful for patronising the listener with clunky unnatural dialogue and preachy bits of background information imparted in a painful way. Just hideous.

DH and I were just talking about this again last night. Altough 'show don't tell' is a popular maxim, I think it has to be adapted for radio, because of the way in which people are listening while doing something else. I think that both characters and storylines have to be made clearer and stronger than they might be in a short story, for example, or the listener is left, as DH was yesterday, thinking 'well, what actually happened then?'

DH and I agreed that the strength of Rudy's Rare Records and Fags Bags and Mags is that you can switch on for about 10 mins of the 30 minute episode and have a reasonable idea of what's going on - the characters are enough of a stereotype that you can drop them into a scene (e.g. Rudy's stag party) and the listener understands what's happening. I'm not a fan of Fags Bags and Mags (unlike everyone else on here, I think), but at least it's obvious what's happening every week.

Must do some work... More thoughts later...