Well done @InMySpareTime and thanks ever so for the clues @Friolero ... I didn't think to look at the thread until I was about to give up having gone to bed and then woke woken up thinking "I still haven't got it" - completely without a clue for hours today, wasn't consistently paying attention but kept looking at it every so often, just got more and more stuck.
anyway eventually ...
I found #cemantle #1651 in 543 guesses!
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cemantle.certitudes.org/