Tandem for 3.5 yr old and newborn

[Shangers]

Oh wise and knowledgable Mumsnetters - where I live we have a very limited range of pushchairs so everyone has pretty much the same thing! So I'm a bit clueless except for what I've seen online.... they also have the one child policy so doubles/tandems aren't really seen much!

DS will be 3.5 by the time bubs comes along and I know that there will be times - probably while travelling mostly - that i will need to have them both in a pushchair as DS won't walk/stand on a buggy board for long enough. DS1 also still naps in his pushchair and I suspect that will carry on for a while so I want a second seat that reclines

We're also expecting that we'll have a third DC (hopefully) before DC2 is about 2 years old so I'll need it then as well (DC3 won't be newborn though so don't need a double newborn option).

So most things I've seen have a 15kg limit on each seat. The one that I'm considering is the P&T Verve (which goes up to 20kg each seat) but I know some P&Ts are pretty big and I would like it as small and light as possible (I know I'm asking the earth here!!)

So does anyone know anything about the verve? would it work? Are there any other options that I'm overlooking?

(In case it helps I currently have a bee that is ok but would love it to fold smaller and had a loola when DS was small but the seat part broke).

Also, I'll have the chance to get it from UK this time so no restrictions - yeah!

I have the p&t sport and i find it surprisingly light and easy to push given that it has air tyres.
I have had it for about 20 months and used it in all modes newborn & toddler , two toddlers & then as a single but now my daughter is 3.5 i still use the doubles seat for younger one for shopping trips and for when my 3.5yo needs a nap in big seat.
I dont know what the newer versions of p&t are like but if they are anything near as good as my sport you will find it very handy & get a lot of use out of it and the good thing is that it can be used as a single if the older one starts walking lots and you have the doubles when you have another baby.
A lot of people rave about the icandy but i personally think it is way too over priced around £100 and a dear friend of mines broke after about 2 years

Around a £1000 silly me

I second the P&T! especially when slightly "older" siblings are involved, as the main seat is very big. We have had it since ds2 was a baby and have since had a ds3 as well, so have also used it in all modes.

ds1 is 5, but the size of a 6-7 year old and he still fits in the main seat! All our dcs find it comfortable and so do dh and I - and we use it A LOT! Best investment we have ever made!

I loved the look of the icandy but decided against it as the main seat is very small imo and didnt think ds1 would be able to use it for long.

we were lent a Jane Powertwin just after ds2 was born, and even then ds1 was too big for the seat units. (he was 21 months then!!!)

hth

Can I hijack? Do you not find that baby is a bit low down in the P&T? I like the look of these but this puts me off.

P&T sport is a real workhorse of a pushchair.

we had one when dd1 (severe ASD) was 3, and dd2 about 5 months old. we used it (as a double, fulltime) until dd1 was 5.5ish - then the size of an average 7 year old - and dd2 about 3 (she sometimes hopped out and walked,but not often).

it was fine, with loads of room for them both, and could still get about half a weeks shop in the basket as long as dd2 was careful with her feet!.

My SIL now has it, and it will do her the couple of years she may need a double. it just goes on and on.

re the second seat - none of ours have even complained about it, it is only other people who give comments like "oh, what did the little one do so have to sit in the shopping basket". They can still see plenty, and ds2 and ds3 sometimes argue over who gets to sit in the second seat!

going down steps you do have to be a little careful about lo's back, but then, you'll never find a double that doesnt have a drawback of some sort!

'even' should be 'ever' :)

I have only had good comments of people, the elderly are always shocked and surprised when they hear girgling when they can only see front seat, then they realise there is an extra seat , alot of people have said they wished they the p&t had been invented when they had kids!
I have had a side by side maclaren and ot was cumbersome & heavy due to plastic wheels being so small and wearing down. I have also had a mothercare tandem and oh boy was it heavy & the plastic wheels had no 'give' up hills!
Id recomend you to definetly go for a tandem with air tyres as this would be most easiest with a older child

Well that does sound like I haven't overlooked any better ones then! phew! I agree about the P&T being low but I'm hoping I'll be a little less PFB with the next one! Also I think on the verve (I may be wrong) that you can choose to add the second seat on the front instead so you can use the main seat for the younger baby.... I haven't seen it in action though. I've been trying to buy a P&T since DS1 was born but DH has thwarted my every attempt! now he's going to be sorry that he didn't agree to me buying the second hand one that I saw the other day for £200 :D

Pease don't buy the Verve, especially so far from the UK. The first batch had irreparable faults and those of us from here who bought them got full refunds. I have heard there have been changes since, but even so it was one of the worst tandems there is. The front seat was surgery fine apart from the huge hole between the child's head and the hood that let the wind race through past my child's head. The lower seat kept falling off the runners when upright into fold mode. The lower seat leaves an older child with little leg room. The basket is shorter to the end than other P&Ts. Look at this just 3 year olds feet. Her knee is right up on one side and touching the upper seat or her foot s squished bent straight out. In other photos she actually has her feet stuck out of the sides of the basket. She was unable to get in on her own and even putting the baby underneath was difficult - like threading a needle! The fold left me with a blood blister and pinched my hands many times because it's too hard to secure at the end of the fold. It weighs a lot as its a big chunk to lift in one go and is long. It filled my car boot. It felt really tippy if the top child got out (as you do say at the swings) I sed to have to hold the Verve handle whist pushing the swing) The lower hood was floppy. In fact apart from the fact it looks very pretty I really thought it wasn't good. That's the tip of the iceberg really TBH. It's also not small open as there's a lot at the rear ie second seat and handlebar.

I suspect a regular P&Ts would be better but I still think there are better options out there. IMHO you won't get better than the new iCandy Peach Blossom 2. It works brilliantly for all ages and my 3.5 year old often hops on board for a ride. I think the Jane Twone is worth a look, as is the Britax B-Dual. There's information on these and the Verve www.bestbuggy.co.uk here.

To be honest what you are asking for is a lot because of having a 3.5 year old now because an older child means you need something that pushes and manoeuvres easily, and that's not easy to find on a tandem, let alone one with good newborn options.

The other route to go which is less problematic in some ways ie it will handle an older child well, is a side by side like the Baby Jogger City Mini GT, TFK Twinner Twist Duo, Easywalker Duo etc. but they are certainly not as versatile and with a 3.5 year old you may well have an empty seat at times. But a side by side I would think is less likely to have an issue than a tandem.

Very tough one to be honest!

Just to add, I forgot an obvious one - the Bugaboo Donkey. Definitely worth a look.

nipper 360

I know someone who has this and used it like you have - toddler/ newborn and then when newborn again even added a buggy board.

Oh bother Tiggywunkle!! I thought I had my choice! but gosh that does sound awful!! I have looked at the donkey but it just seemed overkill - especially as you said I'm going to have an empty seat a good proportion of the time. Had a look at the icandys and they are all up to 3years old (which is usually 15kg IME - which is what my son is now)

I did have my heart set on an inline and even better one that can be used as a single but will have a google at all those suggestion - thanks

Has anyone tried the verve and other P&Ts? Maybe I'd be better off going for a more traditional inline.... or anyone tried the P&T promenade??

Pushchairs in the Uk have to be tested to 15kg and no more. The manufacturer would have to pay to test further so often they don't. They're actually apparently tested with a weight of 1.5x the weight they state, so they're tested with a minimum 22.5kg here. If you look on other countries' websites, you'll find that their weight limits differ from ours. For example:
The B-Dual main seat goes up to 25kg in some countries
According to Which?, the Peach main seat is ok up to 20kg in the UK, but I can't find a limit in other countries
The Baby Jogger City Select is tested to 20kg in each seat in Australia
I can't find a weight limit for the Twone, but it hasn't actually been released yet

The BJCS is one you may find quite good as long as you have the older child closest to you and only if you're likely to only need it as a single once the youngest reaches around 9kg. It starts to feel heavy and veer sideways on any kind of slanted floor past this stage, but the seating configurations are really good.

One issue with P&Ts is that it seems a very common problem that once the baby reaches about 3 or 4 months, they can't fit easily under the second seat above them, so people often put the baby in the second seat underneath before they're old enough. I'm not certain, but I didn't think the second seat could recline on any models when it's in the upper position, which obviously wouldn't be great for your son when he naps. If you buy a new P&T then be prepared for faults and the need to have it repaired or replaced in the UK. Their product quality has gone rapidly down hill recently and there have been recalls on most of their products to date. The Promenade is no exception.

Tiggy, Frigg and ...wanstsomeicandy (I can't remember her latest name in full!) have all have multiple P&Ts including the Verve. Their Verves were returned and refunded in full after many issues.

Gosh that's really helpful - thank you Hypatia! I never thought to look on different countries websites!! BJCS is one I looked at but was put off by the weight limits so I'll definitely go back to that one for another look - and the others - thanks.

The Verve does have two seats that both recline well - the main reason I was so keen to be honest!! It's very good to know about the problems though - Tiggy is totally right that it's going to be a major issue getting things fixed/returned if there is an issue. (I'm going through that with my car seats at the moment - not fun!)..... i wonder if an older P&T might be better (and cheaper!)

Haven't got the energy to start looking at it again now (it's getting late here!) but I will be back tomorrow with some more -stupid- questions for you knowledgable ladies!

I didn't think the doubles kit could recline in the upper position, just in the lower. I don't know for certain though. And it's not suitable from newborn so you'd have to have it in the upper position from newborn, but there's more room underneath than on the other P&Ts.

I definitely wouldn't get a BJCS for a 3.5 year old plus baby. You would struggle to push it TBH.

I think what Hypatia was trying to say, is that when your baby is first born, the doubles kit on any P&Ts (except the Promenade) seat moves to the front - like the 3rd of these photos which looks like this and this and this and finally this. So the doubles kit is now on the front and will not recline and underneath is the baby in the rear compartment.
It is only when the doubles kit moves to the lower ie basket position, that the Verve doubles kit can recline. So your eldest would have 6 months on the top, and it wouldn't recline. Plus there's not really any sides for head support if he did fall asleep.
Another thing to bear in mind with some P&Ts notably the Dash, is that head room when the doubles kit is on the front is limited and also the raincover is very close to the child's face in front.

I see what you mean Hypatia and Tiggy - now I'm a little cross with P&T because they don't make that clear at all! it's all over their website that both seats have a good recline etc etc ..... except when it's on top apparently! grrr!

And you think the BJCS is going to be too hard to push? ..... so I think I'm back at the donkey or a different kind of P&T..... You know I'm really glad I asked because verve and BJCS were the two that I thought were best!

Has anyone got any opinions on the P&T Classic or explorer? (I think the others are discontinued - at least that's how it looks from the website)

oops - pressed send just before I worked out the classic and explorer are going to have the same problem with the second seat on the front! :-(

Probably P+T sport. Ours was used until DS was 4.6 and DD was 2.8.

And eldery people loved it. Whenever I thought they were going to make a snippy comment about older children in buggies they would start going on about how they wished they had them in their day. I'm a fast walker so I don't do small child speed walking and the P+T got us from A to B quickly.

DS was too heavy for the back seat by the time we stopped using it but it didn't seem to be close to breaking or anything.

Second hand is a good option IMO. I bought mine new but it was battered pretty quickly, the person who bought it off me on e-bay will be years / miles out of it.

Thanks Meglet - I think I'd have to go for second hand to get the sport - unless the P&T website is lying to me again!

I will have a look on ebay but I had kind of resigned myself to having to buy new for convenience (I live abroad so I have limited time back in the UK!)

It's ridiculously early to be looking at this but I'm spending 8 weeks in the UK this summer and I was kind of hoping that I could leave my bee here and use whatever I decide on over the summer! (otherwise I'll have to bring back two pushchairs on the plane and I can't see the airline liking that much!

thanks so much for all your help everyone - any suggestions are very well appreciated!

Yes all the P&Ts will be the same as the front seat goes on them all in newborn mode. I honestly would not get a BJCS.