Is the estate agent being reasonable or trying to manipulate us?

[ForestFloor]

Basic story - we want to buy a house (obviously). So do one other set of people. The other set have signed up to sell their house through the agents (Dodgy and Fib) who are selling the house we both want. We have signed up with a different agent. Dodgy and Fib said to me that they will look on an offer 'more favourably' by the other sellers because they are representing them - they say it is becaue our agent may not get the value for our house that we need and so might want to reduce an offer on the house we want. Is that allowed?

Surely who gets what for their house is out of their (Dodgy and Fib's) control - the other set of people might get less than they wanted, we could get a bidding war on ours (for example - I am not expecting that!)?

Is there anything we can do? At the moment it sounds like we are on the back foot, and the only thing we can do to get the house is offer very high to be 'taken seriously'

Dodgy and Fib won't accept our offer on the house till we have an offer on our house, so we are in a 'race' with the other set of people to get ours under offer. However, I fear that Dodgy and Fib will be trying to get their client sorted to get max sales revenue and in some way try to stall us.

Help! Any experience/advice would be really appreciated.

It's not up to Dodgy and Fib to accept your offer...it's up to the owners of the house you want.

The agents must by law put any offers forward to the owners. It may well be a race to see who sells their house first, or how offers the higher price, if you and the other set of people are both in a position to move.

I suspect the agents are trying to persuade you to go on the market with them.

I would make it very clear that they are bound by law to pass on any offer you make and that you will not be bullied into selling your house with them- if anything their attitude is most off-putting.

As you say, you can't put an offer on until your house is sold so I wouldn't worry too much about it until then as all manner of things could happen between now and then.

Thanks LS.

The agents say they won't put forward any offer until we are in a position to proceed, but I thought like you, that they had to put offers to the vendors, in writing...

Hmm...anyone know where I can find out the legal side of that?

The other fear is that we DO get an offer first, but Dodgy and Fib advise the vendors to hold out for more from the other people, soft-soaping the vendors that it would be 'easier' if they were handling both sales, even if it means it takes longer. I can't do a lot about what 'advice' they give them, can I? However, I resent having to bid high (and above what the property is worth imo) to counterbalance against the fact we aren't using Dodgy and Fib to sell ours

I hate (most) estate agents!

notasize10 - but is an offer dependent on us having an offer? What about if we were buying without selling our house - they would have to put forward an offer then wouldn't they? or AIBU lol!

As for Dodgy and Fib's attitude - they have a reputation locally of being shonky and hard-sell. I hate being manipulated, but I don't want to lose out by refusing to play the game (ie get THEM to sell our house...)

Don't offer more than you think the property is worth (to you), whatever that may be. If they are giving the vendors a load of tripe about it being 'easier' to sell if everyone is with the same agent unfortunately there is nothing you can do (other than tell everyone you meet aboyut D&F's underhand and unprofessional tactics).

Sorry X-post there. If you were buying without having to sell, ie, a cash buyer, then your offer would be that much stronger, and would probably 'trump' another offer of someone caught in a chain. But sadly that is not the case so you do have to wait until you have an offer on yours. At least, I can't imagine the owners will consider an offer unless yours is under offer.

I'd make the offer direct to the vendors and completely bipass the agents.

Put it in writing and pop it through the door of the property, explain your situation factually - who you are on with, what price, average price houses in your street selling for etc to show you're keenly marketing. Explain if you already have a provisional morgage offer.

Provide email, phone and mobile numbers to contact you.

I generally find once you've had contact with the vendors direct, sales go smoother.

ForestFloor - Dodgy & Fib might have been instructed (by their clients) not to put any offers forward until the people making the offer (you) are in a position to proceed. You are quite correct that they legally have to put offers in writing to the vendors, I think within 24 hours of receiving them.

I would just proceed with your sale as best you can. There is nothing you can do until your house is under offer. At that point, if the other people are also in a position to make an offer, the vendors would be best advised by Dodgy & Fib to accept the offer from whoever is in the shortest chain, or whoever has a mortgage already signed up in principle, or who can be flexible about completion times, etc. Its not all about the price.

Can you drop a letter through the door of the house that you want to make an offer on? TO say that you liked the house and have put an offer forward to the agents?

You can offer without having an offer on yours but Dodgy and Fib are free to give any advice they like to the venders. I am selling a flat at the moment and the EA basically showed it for a week and got lots of offers but waited until he had a high offer that he trusted would go through before he told me about them. Luckily I trust him. I would not even bother offering until you have accepted an offer on yours. Good luck!

Lots of wise words here, thank you. We have met the vendors and they seem nice, so may pop a note round to them, just stating our position. Assuming we get an offer, we are in a relatively good position - mortgage-wise we will be at 2x DH's income, so assume we will be able to extend our existing one with no problems.
Oh well, it is just a case of getting on the merry-go-round and holding on tight I guess.

I just wish we could trust Dodgy and Fib, but I know we can't and that makes it all even more stressful lol!

Talk to the vendors.

Go and see them and tell them your position, but that you have been told the agents are favouring their other client over yourself. Say that you can (maybe) understand their (commercial if not ethical) reasons for doing so, but wanted to be sure that the vendor had the right information, so that they can make a decision based on facts.

Estate agents can be shit.

I don't see how Dodgy & Fib can sabotage your own sale in any way. And how do they know how much money you need from your sale in order to make a good offer on the house you want to buy? You could let the vendors know of your interest, but you will not be able to buy direct from them without bypassing Dodgy and Fib so its probably best to keep them on your side.

I mean you won't be able to bypass Dodgy & Fib, obviously.

It might be better to play it cool. Act like the house is one of a few you have seen that you like. If they know you are really keen they may try and manipulate a bidding war. We have had EAs try to do that before and they got the right hump when we would not go over the asking price (although those were different economic days).

Are you sure they arent just saying that your offer isnt as strong as the other party because you are not in a position to proceed until you have an offer on your house?

After all, unless you dont need to sell yours, any offer you make is not worth having. It may take months for you to get an offer.

unavailable - the agent said any offer we made would not be looked on as favourably as an offer the others made as Dodgy and Fib are not selling our house but they are selling the other peoples house. At the moment, neither of us are in a position to proceed with an offer - both are going on the market tomorrow.

However, where we are there is a distinct boom going on - lots going under offer and then selling (my observations, not estate agent bull). I suspect we will get an offer fairly quickly - just hope it is before the others do. The agent has said they will 'remove the property from active marketing' (the house we want) as they have interest from two parties - that sounded unusual to me, and I can't see why they would .

Like I said, I don't trust them (D&F), which makes this all so much harder...

FF - I didnt realise the other party were in the same position as you. In that case, and especially with the statement that they will "remove the property from active marketing", I dont blame you for not trusting them.

It sounds odd.

Hello everyone new to the site. I could bore you with the 18 month saga of my house move and am still waiting to get one - we hve gazumping going on where I live but having bought and sold many houses my advice is to chill out - if you are meant to have your dream house you will get it despite all dodgy agents - honestly you have to live by that when dealing with houses otherwise you will have a nervous breakdown. You will sell yours when the right house pops up for you and that is a promise, hard to believe but ask anyone that's done it a few times and if you don't get this one something better will come along. Stay cool and make an offer when you can proceed.

badembabe - this house is the first in FOUR years of (almost daily) looking in the area (a big one area), that I have been interested in. I am being cool about it and all, but it is fair to say that in our case, 'another one' will com along

unavailable - as to what the agents meant by that, I don't know and don't understand . The vendors are legit, we have spoken and I trust THEM, just the agents that seem short on morals and clarity...

edit - another one WON'T come along

Good gracious! I know that everyone hates estate agents but this now does seem amazingly dodgy.

So, in writing, confirm that you definitely will make an offer, subject to the sale of your own property. Do not do it over the phone. Having something on paper (sent recorded delivery) means there is something that has to go on the file. By writing that letter of serious intent you are opening up a formal dialogue with the EA, rather than just casually shooting the breeze with them. In your letter, ask for clarification on the future marketing of the property in the light of your interest (ie. did they really say they would not "actively" market just because two potential buyers were expressing an interest?). This is really not on, unless instructed by the vendors.

bbh - that sounds like a good plan, thankyou.
The agent today said she was going to speak to the vendors about removing the house from active marketing, so it is not being done covertly. I just don't understand why they are doing it at all, as both of the two interested parties are not yet proceedable .
I assume they want a bidding war between us, is this a tactic to put pressure on? What is the point as neither of us have buyers and thus neither can put in an offer?
Whatever they are playing at, I can't get my hopes up as it all seems too peculiar at the moment.
The vendors DO want to sell though. They are in no real hurry, but are genuine sellers.
I will no doubt speak to the agents again tomorrow - see where we go from here

Agree with others. Do not depend on the EA to pass on your offer.

I always make offers by sending a letter to agent and homeowner simultaneousy setting out the offer. Put SUBJECT TO CONTRACT at the top of the letter and make clear that your offer depends on satisfactory searches, selling your own property etc.

Unfortunatley, agents are using this trick a lot to try and get 2 fees out of each sale. Do not be be bullied. Make a sensible offer and let the vendors make a decision. Put your phone number on the letter and if they are genuine they will call you.

Forget the EA.