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Original poster

landlords - question re a hole in tha bath! long story sorry

24 replies

snowykitten · 19/02/2010 16:20

I am a landlord of a one bedroom flat. I have received a phone call today from the maintenance firm that my management agent uses to give me a quote about replacing the bath due to there being a hole in it. This is the first I have heard about any hole!!

I rang my management agent (the flat is about 300 miles away from where I live) and they knew nothing of it either.

Apparently, after some investigation on my part, it turns out that the maintenance company went to look at a leaking toilet (which I did know about but it turned out to be condensation!) and whilst there the tennants told them about the hole so they have quoted for it.

The tennants have said that there was a crack in the bath from when they moved in (at the beginning of February 2010) and now it has become a hole. However there is nothing in the inventory neither have they notified the management agent.

I am going to speak to the manager at the agents tomorrow to discuss the matter further. But my question is who would you say is responsible for paying for this? Is a crack/hole in the bath normal wear and tear?

OP posts:

Original poster

snowykitten · 19/02/2010 16:48

Hole in tha bath?? No a hole in the bath!!

OP posts:

Original poster

snowykitten · 19/02/2010 20:44

Shamelessly bumping for the evening crowd!

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QueenofWhatever · 20/02/2010 19:35

I'm confused as to how you could get a hole in the bath. Or even a crack for that matter.

Is it leaking? When did the tenants move in, as you say Feb 2010 which is now. The chances are you will have to end up paying for it, but I would definitely do some digging first.

Original poster

snowykitten · 20/02/2010 22:05

Queenofwhatever - I'm glad you've said that!! I find it hard to believe how you can crack or put a hole in a bath just by using it as you should!!

The tenants actually moved in on 30 Jan this year, so a little over 3 weeks?

Aparrently they have been putting a towel over the crack and still using the shower!!! I am really glad they are on the ground floor otherwise I would be paying for a new ceiling in the flat below too!!

I've spoken to the boss at the management agency who I know quite well and he is going to do some investigation into the whole (or should that be hole) matter!

We'll see..........!!

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heQet · 20/02/2010 22:12

Is there nothing in their agreement that requires them to notify you of faults or they become liable?

Not telling you about a problem and thus allowing it to get worse and risk more substantial damage is negligent of them and tbh, I'd be thinking of charging them something towards it!

Original poster

snowykitten · 21/02/2010 10:23

I did wonder if I could charge them half the cost of replacing the bath as they didn't report the crack. I am concerned about what might happen in the future if there are any other faults with anything and they don't report it. Should I make a stand now and say they have to pay something or do I stump up this time and give them the benefit of the doubt for being naive? This is their first rental property after living with their parents.

On the other hand though - it has crossed my mind that not reporting it to the agent and just covering it with a towel could be seen as a guilty conscience?

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heQet · 21/02/2010 17:29

I suppose in the interests of a good relationship, you could pay for it this time but make it clear that failure to promptly report damage or faults would make them partly liable for the cost of repairs, if by failing to report it, they allowed the situation to worsen.

I am not sure if, legally, that would need to be in the tenancy agreement? Probably best ask your solicitor.

probono · 21/02/2010 17:34

It's impossible surely to get a hole in a bath in three weeks without it being damaged.

If it's an undamaged bath on the inventory then what have they done?

Is it a plastic or enamel bath?

probono · 21/02/2010 17:43

Come on, I am really not buying this.

Firstly you need photos emailed to you. The agent should do this for nothing, lazy sods.

Then you need someone else to go round, a plumber, not attached to the agent. A plumber should be able to tell you -- damage or FWT.

Plus you need to google "hole in the bath" (seriously) to see how they happen.

Putting in a new bath is not cheap. Get photos, get the guy round to look, put in a new bath. Grill ask them about it and if you think they did it decide what to do.

Be nice and pay, or ask them to pay all or half, or a bit, or deduct some/all/a bit from deposit.

probono · 21/02/2010 18:05

alternatively, suggest repairing or replacing the bath, saying you can decide afterwards between you who is responsible so who will pay

if they choose repair over replacement, they did it

Original poster

snowykitten · 21/02/2010 18:13

probono - The agent has looked at the photo's and can see no crack on them nor did he notice anything at the time of the inventory obviously. I am sure he will email me the pics for free if I ask him for them. He is going round on Monday to have a look under the bath to see if there is any suggestion of a repair job done (by previous tennants as they were a bit dodgy to say the least!)and also look at the floor under the bath and see what evidence of leakage there has been.

I will have to wait until all that happens until I can decide what to do I think.

Thank you for your comments. I am glad that you are all as as me!

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Original poster

snowykitten · 21/02/2010 18:17

BTW it is a plastic/fibre glass (or whatever!) bath, which I know would break more easily than an enamel one

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DuelingFanjo · 21/02/2010 18:18

out of interest, roughly how much are they quoting you?

Original poster

snowykitten · 21/02/2010 18:21

£360 Fanjo. For a new bath and includes the retiling/making good that they will have to do after taking the old bath out.

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DuelingFanjo · 21/02/2010 18:26

hmm, seems rather a lot. I wonder if they made the hole in the bath (builders or tenants)and are now trying to make money from it or cover it up!

Original poster

snowykitten · 21/02/2010 18:36

What builders? I'm pretty sure the only ones who could have damaged the bath would be either the tenants that have just moved in (my bet is them) or the previous tenant that moved out in December (who might have covered it up hence the underbath investigation). If that was the case they wouldn't make money on it as I would pay the maintenance people through the agent.

The agent is a friend of the family and he has a share in the maintenance company so I am pretty sure also that he wouldn't try a con like this (at least I would bloody well hope he wouldn't!!).

And £360 isn't that bad imo if you think how much a new bath would be plus tiles and labour....... it is a lot of money though to rectify someone elses carelessness!!

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ILikeToMoveItMoveIt · 21/02/2010 18:45

I think the quote for a new bath sounds about right, but I would query how the hole/crack happened.

I would think that if someone looks under the bath they will see how long the water damage has been there. If it's new your new tenants have probably cracked it and if it's been there a while then it's down to previous tenants.

Have a look at your tenancy agreement to see what it states about breakages caused by the tenant and wear and tear etc.

However sometimes these things are inconclusive and you have to just put up with the cost of repair

Original poster

snowykitten · 21/02/2010 18:50

Thats sort of what I was asking MoveIt! Could a crack in the bath be wear and tear? I've never had a crack in any of my baths in any of the houses I've lived in nor do I know of anyone who has had a crack - have I just been lucky or is this more of a regular occurence in renting out properties?

I can't beleive the amount of washing machines and fridge freezers I've had to buy over the years too though, so at least a bath is a different item to buy I suppose!!

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Original poster

snowykitten · 21/02/2010 18:52

If it is inconclusive though would I be wrong to say that we should half the cost each (ie tennant and landlord) as they didn't report it? I am concerned that as time goes on other things will crop up as problems due to them not reporting things earlier or at all.

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DuelingFanjo · 21/02/2010 18:53

by builders I meant the maintenance company.

Original poster

snowykitten · 21/02/2010 18:55

Sorry Fanjo - I understand now!

Possible i suppose but I doubt it for the reasons I said earlier about friend of the family etc though.....

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ILikeToMoveItMoveIt · 21/02/2010 19:24

Is the crack wear and tear? - how long's a piece of string I guess?!

The bath may have been badly fitted so it could have been prone to damage.
The tenant may have dropped something in it and caused the crack.
The bath may be knackered and it was only a matter of time before something happened to it.

I think the tenancy agreement I use mentions something about the tenants being liable for the damage they have caused, but general wear and tear may also be taken into account in that charge, ie if they broke the bath but the bath was knackered to start with then they shouldn't have to shoulder the whole bill, or if the bath was new and they broke it then they are liable for the whole amount - does that make sense?

I have changed the bath in my property, but not because of a crack but because it leaked because it was a cheap bath and had been badly fitted.

If it's inconclusive then it's up to your discretion what you chose to do I suppose. Do you think they will be good long term tenants? How easy would it be for you to get new tenants if the current tenants chose to leave if they think they have to pay an unfair bill? You have to weigh up the pro's and con's.

Original poster

snowykitten · 21/02/2010 20:13

MoveIt - that is all very well put!! Thank you! Sorry for the delay in replying - I had to put my ds in our non holey bath!!

Well the bath in the flat was put in new 13 years ago. So not badly fitted I would guess but maybe getting a bit old by now (not sure how baths age is it 7 years to our 1 like dogs maybe??!!) and prone to damage.

I think my tenancy agreement is pretty much the same as yours and yes what you typed all made sense to me!

Can't say if they will be good tennants yet -they've not been there long enough!! They are signed up for 6 months at the moment (I always start that way just in case!) but wanted long term eventually. I am however going to sell the flat once the market picks up again but that probably won't be till next year I guess.

I will see what the agent uncovers tomorrow, if anything and then make a decision as to what I do next.

I had one very good tenant for 5 years and then have had 3 in the past 18 months or so, one who was fine, one couple that were a nightmare and now this couple. I suppose I am just naive to the ways of tenants and have been lucky so far. A cracked/holey bath isn;t that bad in the great scheme of things - it could be a lot worse I suppose!!

Thank you ladies for all your comments and suggestions, they have helped me see it for what it is....... unless there is a horror story waiting under the bath.....!!!

OP posts:

Feelingsensitive · 22/02/2010 14:28

I am a landlord and personally I would pay for the bath to be replaced because:

How are you going to prove it was them particularly as the bath is so old.
Do you really want to sour relations with your tenant so early in the agreement. If they upped and left or worse still trashed your flat or didint pay rent then that would cost you more.

Given the age of the bath perhaps you would have considered changing it soon anyway and it will look good when you come to sell.

I woudl however, write them a very clear letter setting out their obligations to inform you of repairs so if anything happens in the future you can rightfully ask for money from them.

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