How do I persuade me elderly parents that they want to sell up and buy a property with an annexe with us?

[OrmRenewed]

Dad had a heart op in november. He's OK now but still not 100%. Both of them will be 79 this year. Mum has health problems too. We live 14miles away. Not far but far enough not to be always there when they need us. We want them to live with us but we have a 3-bed terrace and no space. And we know they will need there own space without children making noise all the time. Soooo.... when my friend was here we googled houses with an annexe and found a few that were perfect. 4 or 5 beds with a 2 or 3 bed annexe. Affordable if mum and dad sold their place and put approx half their equity in.
I don't know how they would take the idea. I don't know if they would love it, or resent the mere idea. But it makes sense.

So how do I put it to them? If at all.

They will have enough furniture already I think. Moving from a bigger house. Most if it antique and valuable so whatever is left when they die will be split I guess.

It's not just furniture though - it's carpets and curtains etc. I don't know what your parents are like but my gran wanted very expensive carpet and curtains. And she had to buy some new furniture because a lot of her stuff was too big for the annexe. Just worth thinking about and discussing how you will deal with it with your brother now I think. My uncle wasn't particularly involved with caring for his parents, my mum did most of that, but he was still felt that somehow my mum had profited from my gran's death

Thanks for the warning ladyB. Something similar but milder occurred with my mum and her sister.

I think it's very odd to discuss with your brother before your parents tbh
they might not want to anyway , it's their decision not yours or your brothers

But compo I don't want him to be upset.

Aw I know you don't
but talk to your parents first, don't talk about them iyswim
really it will be up to them to broach it with db

Maybe you are right compo. They aren't children.

Perhaps 'we'd really love it if you'd consider moving nearer us' as a start.

A lot depends on the personalities involved.
My sibs are more than happy that we are having my mum move in with us although we already have enough space so she is renting out her house so at least we don't have the 'stealing our inheritance' threat - however I really can't see my siblings bring upset over an imaginary inheritance - we were brought up to look after ourselves and not to expect to have anything from our parents.

If your brother is sensible he will be relieved that you are taking on the major task of caring for his elderly parents and that any financial gain you may get is likely to fade into insignificance compared to the energy and care you will be giving to your parents.

The alternative (if your brother was unhappy with the idea) would be to cost up a carer, cleaner and gardener for your parents home and to tell your brother he can pay 50% of the cost and make a commitment to visit them every other weekend!

I broached something similar with my father about 3 years ago - slightly different in that I wanted him to be able to stay in his village where he had friends etc, and I was prepared to move to his house. We suggested he convert his granary/garage into a one bed house for him, and we lived in his cottage.

He was delighted by the idea, absolutely jumped at the idea. Once we had all agreed in principal we spoke to my sister to see what her thoughts were. I don't think she was particularly keen but liked the idea of us living next to our father rather than all being 250 miles away all the time.

As it turns out, we ended up being given the house by my father and then buying my sister out last year. Lots of tax and legal advice taken, but we are all settled now.

If you do go for this, make sure you are smart about the other half of the equity which will be "earmarked" your brothers inheritance. If this is given him in advance, then you have to consider who will have to pay for their care in later years. You, with the remaining equity? Or share the cost between you? Or put the equity released from selling the house in a fund, etc.

My aunt made a similar offer to my grandparents about 8 or 9 years ago. In their case the idea was to use part of the equity from their house to help pay to extend my aunt's house so that she would have room for them.

I think she did talk to her siblings (well my Dad and another sister that lives in the UK, possibly not the other sister in Australia) about it beforehand, mostly to see whether they thought it was a good idea.

I think everyone thought they would need a lot of persuading, but my Granny jumped at it. She obviously was finding looking after my Granda too much by that stage (late 70s, early 80s, like your parents).

There are a few things I think you need to be wary about

1. assuming, or allowing your brother to assume, that the remaining 50% of equity from the house sale is his. It is theirs and they may very well need it for care. They could both live for many years and their needs will become more costly.

1. your relationship with them - the relationship between my Granny and the daughter she lives with has been quite fraught since they have been living together (probably always was, but this has put it under strain). This could change your relationship with them, and not necessarily for the better.

1. regrets - even though my Granny really wanted this move, she went on and on for many years about how she should never have sold her house (only once it was all far too late, of course)

1. noise - we all thought it would be brilliant for the GPs to have their (fairly young at that time) granchildren about, but in fact they found their (totally normal) noisiness a bit too much at times. Sounds like the annexe will take care of that one.

I think you are offering to do a really good thing. Overall it has worked quite well to have my GPs (well latterly just my Granny as Granda needed full-time residential care for the last 6 years of his life) move in with my aunt. We know they/she are well cared for and it has allowed for a greater amount of independence than I think could have been managed had they remained alone in their own house.

As to how to put it to your parents - I mentioned to my Mum that we would be happy for her to move in when it was the right time for her... it was 2 years later when she came to visit and started talking about moving as a real possibility - and even then we gave it 6 months before she moves. It has been a tough 6 months as she goes through all her things and works out what she really wants to keep (she'll have living room, bedroom and bathroom here, and is currently filling a 3 bed house to the seams), very emotional doing the 'down sizing' so need to take some time over it.

Thanks all for your help. Much appreciated.

millarkie "very emotional doing the 'down sizing' so need to take some time over it". it will be painful but they've already had several clearouts and I think it will be less painful when they are still able to have some sort of independent life when they move. Rather than it literally being moving to die iyswim.

Maybe they would be happier being independent in some sort of sheltered accommodation? I guess you need to have a very open-ended chat with them, and give them (and you) plenty of time to think through the options and how that would affect everyone.

But what a kind DD you are offering to have them live with you - I don't think I could do that

bigtilly - they are wonderful parents. Mum was saying thankyou again for the way I'd helped them when dad was ill. She keeps going on about it! All I could say was 'you reap what you sow'.

Orm - yes, better to be moving in a positive way than an 'it's the end' way...but my mum has fits of chucking out almost everything (after a life time of hoarding) e.g. I had to stop her from throwing out her wedding photos. She is insisting that she is looking forward to the move and we are able to 'dress it up' as her 'helping us with the kids' rather than her not being able to cope where she is. Not sure what I'm trying to say other than take your time, let everyone move at their own pace as much as possible and be prepared for emotional ups and downs (but you sound very prepared for that).

I hope it goes well millarkie

Well I broached the subject to my mum on the phone yesterday. She was saying how she wished she was nearer to help out with the DC more (not that she's in a position to do much any more), so I took my opportunity. I just said that it would be good if they were thinking of moving at any point soon, to think about moving nearer us. I didn't even get a chance to finish my sentence before she broke in with 'Oh no we aren't leaving here'. So I guess I'll have to leave it for now.

I was wondering how you were getting on. If you at least manage to get the idea aired then she can think about it. Since she obviously doesn't want to contemplate moving yet can you look into care that could support them in their own home? Does your dad qualify for attendance allowance ( not means tested) that could pay for a little support?

well done for broaching the subject
like milkarkie says at least now they know you'd like them to be closer

Update of sorts.

Mum was saying how annoying it was that they have to get the car out to get everywhere these days as none of them are up to long walks. So I tentatively mentioned that perhaps they might like to be in a town. And mum announced that, yes they were thinking of that. They want to move to an apartment in Wells. So there we are then! I won't be any nearer to them but they won't be alone in the middle of nowhere and they will have complete independence again. I think that's a good thing.

This message comes quite some time after the original thread....

I find my self in the situation that could be yours in a few years time ...
In 2002 my parents managed to persuade my then elderly grandparents to sell up in the UK and (my parents having sold their property in the UK and a small apartment in the South of France) to buy together a house which needed improvements but had the potential to be big enough for them all more than comfortably. My dad then launched the huge task of building an extension to the existing 85 m² to provide another two bedrooms (for a final total of 190m², 3 bedrooms divided up into two "wings") My grandparents came out officially one year later and settled in beautifully to the lovely warm south french climate. The increasing amount of care and assistance that was required by my grandparants was partly funded by their uk pension and the rest was a mixture of my mum and the french medical team on hand.
My grandad passed away peacefully at the tender age of 95 in 2010 and my nan was to follow in June 2012 at a similar age.

The house is currently busy with us living there temporarily (during the construction of our own home) and my brother often visits too but the time will come when we'll leave and the whole place will be far to massive for just the two of them and with all the financial burdens that it brings. I will soon broach the subject of selling up and moving to somewhere slightly smaller - still with 4 bedrooms, perhaps with a pool and a reasonable garden. My nan passed away at the house and perhaps my mum feels that it's part of her that she's leaving behind ? My dad bears the brunt of the financial side of the hosue etc which is costing his health in the long run ..... how to word it tactfully ... wish me luck ..