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Is it better to rent or to buy your own home?

167 replies

MerryXmasMrsHenry · 11/12/2009 20:45

DH and I have been discussing whether to go back onto the property market while we still have a deposit or to just go all Continental and rent long-term instead.

We've only been renting for 6 months and would love your opinions on the pros and cons of renting and buying.

TIA!

OP posts:
LynetteScavo · 13/12/2009 16:34

Oooh! Where was the island? [nosey]

SausageRocket · 13/12/2009 16:38

It's Tracey Island. She bougt it from Argos

EdgarAleNPie · 13/12/2009 16:42

no joke..you can get an island in some places for less than the cost of a three-bed semi!

muggglewump · 13/12/2009 16:43

Well, when I buy, it will be as a cash buyer.

OK, it won't be on my own merit, but it will happen.

I bet my brother never will, as he always wants more. He'll use his inheritance to secure a bigger mortgage. I'd bet my inheritance in it!

His getting a great career has taught him to be materialistic, my having nothing, has taught me the opposite.

I'm happy as a renter, and I just can't take the 'you must have a career as a high earner', seriously.

I wouldn't be happy to know my wealth (or lack of) is what defined me.

Judy1234 · 13/12/2009 16:57

I certainly don't feel mine defines me and I'm not very materialistic at all. You can earn a high salary and think flash cars etc are very non U. It's the nouveau riche who flash it around or people with small penises or whatever who have to show it off.

expatinscotland · 13/12/2009 17:49

Ach, don't be, Early. It is not my money, I did nothing to earn it. I am entitled to nothing.

If they left me a million dollars but said I had to move to Houston, I'd walk away feeling nothing but grief over their deaths and not a cent in my pockets.

There's no price to be placed on living in a place where you are miserable, I have learned at least that in this life.

MerryXmasMrsHenry · 14/12/2009 15:28

expat - wow, what a situation you're in. You're stuck between two devils. Could you not just take the cash from your parents, 'move' to Houston (for a week or two) and then leg it back to Blighty and never speak to them again? Wish I had advice for you, but clearly there's no way I could possibly suggest anything useful as you know your situation better than I do. However, if I ever win a substantial amount on the lottery, I will be looking to help out people who could do with a leg-up out of their crap situaions, in which case I will CAT you. No strings - in fact you could always do to me what I've suggested you do to your folks!

OP posts:
MerryXmasMrsHenry · 14/12/2009 15:34

Thanks all for your contributions to this thread. I've just re-read this post and wanted to warn you at the beginning that it's long and hopefully not too waffly, and hopefully thought-provoking in parts. If not, well, at least I tried.

I'm amazed that not one person has mentioned the glaringly obvious insecurity of buying. Within a 12 month period DH and I experienced the birth of a child (bringing in the necessity for expensive childcare payments), plus BOTH of us were made redundant. This all happened a few months before the recession 'officially' started, so goodness knows how many other people were similarly affected once our economy hit the fan. I found it extremely hard to find work; DH started his own biz and so we were earning very little compared with pre-baby. Luckily for us we were able to use our redundancy compensation to pay our mortgage, as well as making use of a mortgage holiday. We then sold up a couple of years later and are now renting.

I still remember the headlines about home reposessions from the last financial crash, and I daresay there have been a fair few of those this time around. If the bank reposesses your home, I assume they also take your deposit, leaving you pretty much in the shit, right? So how does this make home ownership more secure than renting with a good landlord? I haven't even mentioned death of a partner, sudden illness or accident, flooding or other 'act of God' - and insurance companies aren't guaranteed to pay out when we need them, now, are they?

So I'm unconvinced by the argument that renting is more insecure than buying - I think if you are wise and choose your landlord carefully (and ABD has given me useful advice about this in the past - cheers, mate!) you are in a better position as regards security than if you don't choose your landlord carefully. As far as the security of renting vs ownership...I'm not sure one can say for certain as it appears to be a question of perception rather than fact.

The investment issue is more significant, and on the one hand I agree with expat when she wrote that the basic human necessity of shelter has, in UK culture, been turned into a money-making venture. There are so many ways in which we as humans have become commercialised in the post-War years, and I see so much in our society that is rotting as a result of that. Typically, we say these days that if you can make money out of something that is enough to legitimise it. But when we take that argument through every aspect of life where people make money (loan sharks, sweatshops, drug trafficking, child prostitution - I really don't need to expand here, do I?!) we see that this argument on its own is puerile and devoid of all thought.

On the other hand we live in one of the most expensive countries in the world, and we need to be realistic about financial management for our future as well as for the present - and, in the light of the recession, we realise all the more how prudent we have to be in our choices of where we place our money. Investment in property is more likely to pay off in the long term than investment in a company. Unless, of course, with the inevitable deterioration of the global climate, we find, like the people of Cockermouth, that all of a sudden the flood damage status of our home has changed and it no longer becomes sellable.

To come back to the issue of the morality of how we make our money, clearly buying a home is not on a par with drug trafficking! I don't have a problem with people buying a home for themselves as an investment (I have a serious problem with people who do this purely as a money-spinner, because they price 'normal' folks out of the market, seriously restricting their ability to put roof over their heads). So the investment issue is a significant consideration.

ABD - I like your approach to calculating costs. We're in the SE, so buying property is expensive, and I daresay that renting would give us a better home for less money than buying. We are currently renting a 3 bed house for just £100 more than our previous 1.5 bed flat in London - with a good landlord. I shall work out the figures your way!

So to sum up (if you haven't already got bored!) so far I'm torn between renting at potentially lower cost with a good landlord and buying with the potential for no housing costs plus a good lump sum at the end.

My goodness, has anyone actually ploughed through all this lengthy waffle?

OP posts:
ModestlyglazedHam · 14/12/2009 15:51

This has been a really thought provoking thread.

I'm in the same position as you MrsLH. I've no advice unfortunately.

expatinscotland · 14/12/2009 18:13

'as regards security than if you don't choose your landlord carefully.'

Not everyone has a wide range of choice in landlords. Also, landlords can change with time and financial circumstances.

For example, there's someone here renting from an elderly lady.

Elderly lady is happy renting to them, but once she dies, her children might not be.
Landlord is excellent, gets into financial trouble, has to sell up.

One partner gets good job, but in an area that doesn't have as many rentals as the SE. So family has to choose from what is on offer.

EdgarAleNPie · 14/12/2009 18:17

erm, my husband lost his job. the benefits we receive still pay our mortgage (including my wage, which is fairly minimal).

sometimes yo have to take a risk in life knowing that you will do your damndest to make it work when the going is rough.

though it is worth bearing in mind housing bnefit is not paid to mortgage holders.

ABetaDad · 14/12/2009 18:22

MerryXmasMrsHenry - well it was not waffle to me.

What you said contained a serious and well thouht out message. You have experienced the real downside and serious insecurity that comes with buying a house with a mortgage. It is a massive long term commitment when jobs are very insecure and no more than a month or two of wages to count on and falling house prices.

Me and DW faced exactly the same as you and we have that same caution as you do about buying versus rentng as a result. A double loss of jobs plus life threatening illness hit us all in the space of 12 months. If we had had a mortgage we would no doubt have gone bankrupt. Instead we moved out of London to a place with rents that were 1/3 of the rent we were paying in London.

We could do that in a matter of months once disaster struck. We could not have done that with a mortgage round our necks.

expatinscotland · 14/12/2009 18:55

renting is not without its pros, and indeed flexibility is one of them.

Missus84 · 14/12/2009 19:28

I think renting from a social landlord is one of the most secure ways to live. Ideally, there would be no private landlords I think.

expatinscotland · 14/12/2009 20:18

It's ideal when you can't afford to buy, Missus, if the housing is appropriate and safe.

I know a lot of people renting from councils and the MOD who endure housing of absolutely appalling quality (damp, falling down, major disrepair, dangerous estates, etc.).

Don't have a problem with private landlords (except evil ones) but more with how tenancy in Britain is legislated and how much stigma is attached to it.

Judy1234 · 15/12/2009 17:43

But many people in work have life insurance and also usually both will not be made redundant so if you hedge your bets with husband and wife both working full time then you're protected to an extent more than if one is a house person.

We made a lot on our home over the years but the increase in value is pointless unless you intend to trade down eventually although it's a cash bank in hard times too which is not to be underestimated and then if you are paying x% over base rate as I am on a mortgage then it's a pretty good time to be buying. It is a lot cheaper at the moment to buy this house on a mortgage than rent one similar simply because interest rates are at rock bottom prices. IOf course they will not always stay at that level. We paid the mortgage off completely on the last house in about 1995. That could have meant we could live rent free from under 40 to 100 or however long we would live. That's possible too for many people if they can pay off early. But we chose to move to a bigger place because it's fun and easier in a large house.

toja555 · 16/12/2009 15:26

Sometimes I really wonder why I bought my house. I was in a council housing list, and days before I exchanged I started getting my first housing offers (after 2 years of waiting). I would have paid £400 monthly rent, had secure landlord (housing association) and even would have saved something. Now I pay my mortgage (£680 a month), I have no savings left (all put to deposit), I am tight financially (plus insurance, plus repairs?) and worry about money constantly. In this country social housing is a such a huge benefit? with one condition? if you have an access to it?. Sometimes I have a ?brilliant? idea in my head to sell the house, hide all remaining deposit money in abroad account and apply for social housing? but then I think there are many people that are in need much more than me.. I hope as I am being fair with my honesty, maybe if I ever struggle financially God (fate) will be fair on me too?

expatinscotland · 16/12/2009 15:32

'In this country social housing is a such a huge benefit? with one condition? if you have an access to it?. '

And if you are not forced to live on some dire estate or surrounded by thugs and criminals.

And your housing is actually in a good state of repair.

tigerbear · 16/12/2009 15:40

For DH and I our mortgage is only slightly more than we used to pay in rent (we used to pay £1000 a month for a crappy 1 bed flat - holes in the walls and ceilings, lots of things unfixed, rats, and was above a brothel!). It was very central London and we never thought we would be able to afford to buy as central. Well, we did (and ended up in an even better location) - goodness knows how. We now pay £1020, but having said that, that's down to the decrease in interest rates. We feel much better off month to month, however long term we don't have any pension as it all went on our deposit when we bought the flat.
Overall, I feel glad that we bought instead of continuing to rent.

MerryXmasMrsHenry · 16/12/2009 16:41

Edgar - yes, re taking risks, both renting and home ownership carry risks; it's a fallacy to assume that all the risks are held in renting. We all have to take risks in everything we do; that in itself is not a problem IMO; it's a question of which is the best risk for a given individual at a given time.

tigerbear - I am surprised that you rented the horrible place you described in Central London - and at £1000 per month!! Yikes, why didn't you go for a better flat? Obviously I don't know your circusmtances but from your description it sounds as though the flat was probably in that condition when you viewed it - so your story is not so much about the perils of renting but about the perils of choosing bad accommodation. Glad you're in a better position now, though.

expat - yes, of course not everyone will be able to find a good landlord, but as tigerbear's story demonstrates, even when there are other options (having lived in London all my life I am SURE there must have been other, better places at the same cost at the time tiger signed the countract), somen people still make bad choices. As for those who have few or no options, it's incredibly sad and as you say the rental market desperately needs proper regulation in the UK - all the more so now, as I suspect more people are renting due to the financial crash. Things are getting better for tenants (such as with the tenants' deposit schemes), but I believe this is happening slowly.

Xenia - both DH and I had been at our companies for a very long time. We could never have predicted that we'd both be made redundant at the same time, nor could we have predicted that the financial crash would coincide with our redundancies. So hedging your bets as you suggested is still a risk, however small you may perceive it to be.

As ABD said, for people who bought when prices were low the picture is very different from people in my situation, and it must be a challenge for them to understand what it's like for the rest of us. The market at the moment is pretty dead - around my area there are a small handful of properties for sale, all of which are way above our price range. We can't comfortably downsize as we have one child, a baby on the way, and need a home office. We have a deposit from the sale of our last property, but it's not enough to get us a big enough property for our needs - plus we're both relatively new to freelancing and so considered a mortgage risk.

If it were possible to buy without a deposit, I'd do it. We are more than capable of paying the monthly costs for the house that we need, but banks demand a deposit as it's a nice lump sum which they can float on the markets - it doesn't say anything about your ability to keep up payments. If anything, were banks to reduce the size of deposits, people like us would be able to invest the remainder of our savings and maintain that as a future mortgage security for tough times. But then, they wouldn't see it that way - a bank's just a shop, really, isn't it?

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 16/12/2009 18:06

i'm getting too old to take many risks, literally.

but i do know, there are going to be plenty of people like me when i reach the point where i am too old to work (there's no such thing as 'retirement' for most of us) and am starting a course in january that will maximise my chances of becoming self-employed, and then hopefully an access course to another degree course that will lead to work i've always wanted to do, despite having thrown away the chance when i was much younger, and again, hope to work till i can't).

i am fortunate to be blessed with the capacity to do so.

others not so.

this concerns me.

sweetkitty · 16/12/2009 21:54

expat - so sorry to hear of your situation, I was hoping this would be it for you the security of HA accomodation for a change. Would you not consider coming back down to somewhere less rural more central belt. We would love to live somewhere rural but DP needs to be a commute away from Edinburgh.

We could afford to buy as we were both working in London not on great wages (my job was never going to earn shedloads even though I had a degree and post grad qualifications and DP has 2 degrees) but we bought a shoebox of a flat, when DD1 came along we decided to move back to Scotland and downsized our mortgage but upsided the size of our house so I could become a SAHM.

On the inheritance issue, we are about to inherit a sizeable amount from MIL who was terrified of ending up in a nursing home like her mother did, she invested money wisely and sadly died less than 2 years after she retired so never got to enjoy it. With this money we will extend our house, pay off all our debts and a bit of the mortgage so our mortgage will be small on a larger house. It's no comfort though and we really do not want the money but feel as she saved so hard for it that we must invest it in our and our childrens futures the best we can.

expatinscotland · 16/12/2009 21:59

'your situation, I was hoping this would be it for you the security of HA accomodation for a change. Would you not consider coming back down to somewhere less rural more central belt. '

No, because it would make no difference.

We'd still be in the same boat wrt housing (can't afford to buy, have to rent) and then DH would have no job, either, and DD1 is in a great school here that is helping her with her needs so much.

We have so many friends who in Edinburgh and Glasgow, where it was once so easy to find work, who have been made redundant and are really struggling to find anything for a job.

sweetkitty · 16/12/2009 22:04

expat

When we came back to Scotland we thought DP would have a job for life, he has been through 5 restructures in 4 years, every time we are so thankful he still has a job, would be impossible to get anything comparable if he lost his job. He works in that new building near the Gogarburn roundabout in Embra.

expatinscotland · 16/12/2009 22:07

It's dire out there wrt jobs for many.

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