I said I'd never do a loft conversion

[kif]

I've always moaned about people putting in whopping great big loft conversions with dormer windows... now I'm looking at a perfect location, cheap, tatty and TOO SMALL house. Both neighbours have just been approved for loft conversions... which is tempting me.

Who wants to talk sense into me?

Will it take aaaggees to get planning permission for and build? Will it always be an odd after thought room? Will the builder botch it and make my house fall down? Or will it give me space at a 'nice price'?

(please help - I'm sitting in a kitchen piled high with washing up - children vaguely scavenging for scraps - glued to the internet planning tools and discussion boards trying to get it straight in my head - gaaah!).

Go for it. You will not regret it.

OK, OK, let's rewind:

How long to get planning permission?

How many cups of tea and cakes did you make for builders to try to persuade them to turn up the following day and complete on time?

How many nails did you snatch from your child's hands while the work was happening?

How many noughts were there on the bill?

(your house sounds lovely - btw. This house is a 'cottage'/hovel )

It took a couple of months I think for permission. (but it was a while ago, so I might be wrong)

My builders were very self sufficient, I used a company that designed as well as built. The only problems we had were a bit of slap dash clearing of rubble from neighbours path.

Safety wise, it was fine, they sectioned off the loft part until it was safe to go up. For the first bit you don't really see, you just hear them smashing away upstairs.

We had to have our staircase moved 180 degrees, but they did that in a matter of hours.

The whole thing, building, putting in a bathroom for the loft and the bathroom on the next floor (ponce) came in at about 40k for everything. Best money we ever spent.

you may not need planning permission; just building regs, and the rules have changed recently. Check your Council web site under building regs.

Ours was the best thing we ever did.
We did, however, have a cunning plan: we had it done while accompanying dh on his sabbatical to another town, so we were living 150 miles away and weren't disturbed by the noise and dust at all. Our cleaner came in once a week to tell the builders off for not washing up their coffee cups/keep the dust under control.

I think we didn't need planning permission because it was within the regs for what you can do without.

We used a firm that specialised in loft conversions and they were fab. We think they had Good Taste in what they did. (They are called Attica if you're in East Yorks.)

We ended up with two new rooms in which you can only stand up in the middle but they don't feel claustrophobic because they are so light and airy. Even our 5'9" au pair loved living up there.

I can't remember how much it cost, apparently it won't have added much to the value of the house because we don't have the other things a 4 bed house should have like big garden and off-street parking, and the receps are rather poky, but it has made it much more livable for us.

We're in a conservation area - and frankly it's a surprise to me that they're allowing the roof lines to be changed at all.

However, the plus point is that I should be able to copy the neighbours plans, and save myself hassle architects fees and planning delays.

You ladies are doing a poor job talking me out of this!

we used this company. Not sure where you are

We have so much light in our upstairs as we had a skylight put in over the top staircase.

I lurve it. So I will not be putting you off in the slightest.

We had it done recently and it was incredibly painless. We also used a company who specialise in lofts and did everything (design, planning, building). I had 3 small DC including a newborn and hardly noticed they were there. The only messy day was when they knocked through the ceiling to put the new staircase in. I took the kids out for the day, they closed all the doors and taped around them to stop the dust going in. By the time I came back home at 3.30 they'd cleared it all out and it was cleaner than when i'd left. We also had a juliet balcony and it's luuuuvly. It's very well insulated which means you can't really hear the rest of the house from up there (lovely for lie-ins) and with the en suite bathroom it feels like i'm staying in a hotel every night.

I meant I hardly noticed the buiders being there - not the DC obviously. I definitely noticed them.

We've just got PP in a conservation area, ended up having to copy our neighbours dormer design to get approval. Process here takes a max of 8 weeks but then add a couple of months (at least) on top to get plans finalised, drawn up etc. Having done all that we are moving rather than going ahead, but it was a good selling point!

Took 8 weeks for planning, work was very unintrusive until they cut through. So many firms out there that it would be tough luck to find one that bodges it (although getting them to turn up and work every day, sheesh...) Definitely worth it - why are you so against them? Lifesaver in London where most people can only afford too-small houses.

In the current market I'd wait for the right house (already converted if required) to come along

We are just about to start ours, well our builder is. Had the architect/structural engineer around this evening going over provisional plans, ironing out details.

kif I think you are right, you cannot trust a builder you do not know completely but you can research it properly. we have seen our builder's work, have spoken to building control about work of his as they have seen/his reputation - we did the same with the structural engineer/architect who also recommended the builder as worked with him on projects for 16 years - architect used to work for building control, and building control said his reputation over the years has been very good, and they regularly get his work through.

We have seen his insurances/liabilities and have copies, and when other builders/loft specialists have been around we have mentioned the other builders we have seen to them all to get their opinions of them - our builder was given a thumbs up (as in, they dissed a lot of the builders, but could not pick fault with ours, other than he is a bit slow, but he has already told us this!!!)

I think you should seriously consider it, if it means turning a small house in a perfect area into the perfect house in a perfect area.

I'm against them because:

1. I think they can often look ugly from the outside. Kind of 'pasted on' to a perfectly nice house. I find it hard to see it as 'improving' a house. It's just 'making a house more comfortable for ME'. It's a compromise driven by economics. If I were supreme over-ruler of the universe, people would live in houses appropriate for their circumstances and jobs - extensions and commuting would be outlawed. I'd rather hand down to the next generations houses which were as the original architect designed them.

2. They tend to be done with flat roofs - which I believe don't have the lifespan of a tiled roof, and will leak sooner or later

3. When i was househunting with my parents (i.e. I was a child) I vividly remember seeing a very big loft conversion to a house on a steep hill. There were whopping big cracks around the doors and windows - it really felt as though the whole house was going to get pulled down the hill by the weight of the conversion. This has always made me wonder how much 'science' there is to making sure that the conversion is adequately supported by the existing house structure.

4. I feel vulnerable putting so much trust and cash into one builder. It would be different if there was a builder in the family.

5. Given I've not bought the house in question, I wonder if I'm making life needlessly hard for myself by committing to doing so much -compared to waiting for a place where a builder-developer has already done it much better than I could have using his own labour, contacts within the industry and experience.

That's just a few reasons why I've always been against them...

While excited for everyone, may I say, as someone who has recently had a loft conversion, it is horrendous for the first 2 weeks. Absolute hell. There were people in my bedroom with hard hats. My home was a building site for about 6 weeks. It was truly awful. My daughter, about 19 months at the time, thought it was fun wearing a hard hat.

Why I thought it was a good idea with a 6 week old, I don't know

But the end result was fantastic

Prepare yourself for at least a few difficult few weeks. I wish the builders had been honest with me as they insisted that we, 'wouldn't know they were there...'

Not going to talk you out of it...we're planning one here! Mind you, DP is a builder so no stresses there (never seen on Rogue Traders) but yes, I think you should go for it. At least see what the time frame would be, planning and cost...then look for a good builder. You too could be like mrsmaidamess in a matter of months

1. Not everyone can afford a perfectly nice house to fit them and their possessions - usually dormer is at the back and completely invisible from the street.

2. Flat roofs are not as hardy as pitched roofs but it is not inevitable that they will leak, it depends on the workmanship and maintenance.

3. That's why building control insist on structural engineer's calcs these days.

4. What pavlov said.

5. Only you can know if it's too much trouble - if all things are equal (ie, house prices don't go up or down) then converting the loft will add value and be much cheaper than getting a developer to provide the space for you.

ilovemydog - what on earth were builders doing in your bedroom? Ours honestly didn't come indoors until they cut through landing ceiling for staircase - they'd just shimmy up the scaffolding each morning. As building work goes, I'd say it was among the least intrusive you can have done.

The main bedroom was where the stairs/landing to the loft was going, and they had to wire the electrics from downstairs via the bedroom. They were also reshaping (not the technical term, I'm sure!) the bedroom as parts of it were being used for the staircase, but gaining length at the same time. The 2nd bedroom was being invaded used by the plumber as the boiler for the central heating/plumbing for the shower/toilet/sink in the loft.

Am glad we got it done, but it was hard for a few weeks.

You don't need to have a flat roof dormer, a pitched roof is quite normal as well.

We were about to buy a house in London with spectacular loft conversion, then survey confirmed what we spotted outside, the roof was caving in. I loved the house and I was really annoyed that the sellers had a botched job. So I understand your reservations. Some surveyors are against them as they say foundations were not built to bear the weight of an extra storey. But I can see the appeal if a house is small upstairs. Personally I'd rather build a two-storey extension at the back. Or build a one floor extension that incorporates a bedroom. I saw a few houses where there was a downstair bedroom and if it's properly situated it's fine. But I know some people don't like the idea of sleeping downstairs.

I would say go for it- We had a gorgeous but too tiny house -our conversion cost £58000 which seemed like a lot back in 2005 but in retrospect it was worth it-gave us two decent sized bedrooms, large bathroom, dressing room and two huge walk in storage cupboards.Took 16 weeks a bit rough at times DS was 2 ,used a specialist company from plans to completion- maybe a little more expensive but much less hassle.

I have to agree with most of ilovemydogs comments. We had a loft conversion done last summer and didn't need planning permission, just building regs. Plans and survey etc took a few weeks and then we booked it in for the summer when we would be home for some of the time (live abroad a lot of the time)
I also hate the dormer type windows so we went for 3 x velux in the back only so not visible (garden not overlooked) we created a nice double bedroom and a small study. Decided against an en-suite as already had 2 x en-suite and a bathroom downstairs.
We used a company called Econoloft who have offices up North and in London who I would totally recommend. They did everything from survey to completion with exception of decorating.
The first few days were the worst noisewise an messwise when they put in the steel girders (so we buggered off on holiday) but everything else was tolerable. They in turn tolerated my then extremely inquisitive 21 month old DD who regularly 'helped' them with her plastic hammer and screwdriver.
The whole thing cost around £25k excluding decorating/carpeting costs.
the bedroom was supposed to be for my teenage son who was going to be promoted up from the 'guest room' so I could reclaim it as a guest room. The week they started I found out I was expecting DC 4 so I only had my guestroom back for a few months

Money well spent and it took around 7 weeks in total