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Help me estimate how much I would have to pay to renovate this house in London.

30 replies

artichokes · 15/11/2008 12:40

We saw a great house in west London this morning (zone 2). The problem is it is at the top of our price range and needs a lot fo work as the old man who owns it lived there for 30 years without doing a thing and rented out 3 rooms as bedsits. Before we put an offer in we need a ball-ark figure for renovation costs and we have never had to do work on a house before.

The house needs no real structural work but its kitchen is a dump and would need ripping out, refitting and a glass wall would be nice at the back. Another kitchen upstairs would need ripping out and replacing with a bathroom and bedroom (so a wall would need building). The other two (small) bathrooms would need totally replacing. A wall would need knocking down between two bedrooms to make a double reception and the other 3 bedroom would need decorating (with new carpets, stripped wall paper etc).

So, are we looking at 40k or 140k??? We would ket kitchens and bathrooms from places like Ikea to save money.

OP posts:
frogs · 15/11/2008 12:48

Try this thread.

Figures are about the same, I reckon.

sugarpear · 15/11/2008 12:53

art - my dh is a builder/ electrician/ plumber he does it all. give me a min i'll see what price he thinks your looking at

sugarpear · 15/11/2008 13:03

Well dh said from what you have written your looking at between 25k -40k. But an inspection of the house would have to be done by any builder to give you a better quote.

This is easily arranged as his done loads of quotes for building works where the people are interested in buying but want to know about building costs firsts.

Sounds like a lovely big house!

morningpaper · 15/11/2008 13:04

60k

Blu · 15/11/2008 13:08

It could be a good idea to get it re-wired, too, while everything is being ripped out and re-decorated.

artichokes · 15/11/2008 13:08

Wow thanks. Those are really helpful replies.

If we could do it for under 40k it might be manageable. If it would more then we might consider just doing the kitchen and one bathroom as a start and slowly addressing the other issues.

I did not know builders would be willing to spend time on a quote before you have even bought the property.

Are builders very busy at the moment, because everyone is staying put and so wanting to make the most of their present properties, or are they not too busy because of the credit crunch?

OP posts:
artichokes · 15/11/2008 13:09

I had not thought about re-wiring. Its a good point. There may be lots of hidden costs.

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Bluebutterfly · 15/11/2008 13:15

If a builder quotes you 40K, I would actually assume an additional 10-20% on top of that - I have never met a builder that did not underquote (no offense intended to any builders)

Whatever you come up with, you need to have a large contingency. We renovated a much smaller house a couple of years ago and it cost us more than £30K and there was still more we could have done to it.

lalalonglegs · 15/11/2008 13:16

I think £25k-40k sounds a bargain. See if Mr Pear works in west London . By glass wall do you mean floor to ceiling windows (sliding or bi-fold)? Those work out at abt £1000 per linear metre plus money to create opening for them. Depends if wall between bedrooms is structural - assuming it is and needs RSJ, another £1500-2000. It will probably need complete replastering once all the wallpaper comes off if it has been on a long while so allow a few grand for that and from the sound of it will need rewiring and replumbing - £15-20,000 plus a couple of grand moving meters which always seems to need doing. I think £50-60,000 to allow for VAT, structural engineers and building regs fees.

PS: If you can get the work done for nearer £40k, I would consider upgrading from Ikea. Anyway, let us know how it goes. God, I love shabby houses that need everything doing.

nkf · 15/11/2008 13:16

I'd say it will probably cost about £100k. Friends did similar with a four bed in zone 3.

artichokes · 15/11/2008 13:30

Re-plumbing? Really?? Oh dear.

The wall we want to demolish is not structural. The room was originally a double reception room and they have put the wall up to make two bed sits.

What kitchen/bathroom stores are a step-up from Ikea without being hugely expensive?

I am soooo excited about this. Eventually this house could be our dream . Because it is a probate property there is no chain and to top it off we acutally have an offer on ours at the moment!

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frogs · 15/11/2008 13:34

Below £40K is really not plausible, ime. Not for London, and not if you want a decent finish rather than the cheapest and cheerfullest of everything. Check that any quotations include materials as well, and you need to factor in VAT.

And that is without allowing for any contingency (eg. you discover major damp problems, the roof needs doing, or the cellar is lined with asbestos).

We had a big kitchen extension/renovation done in our previous house, with folding glass walls at the back, new lead roof, skylight, the works. That was £25K + VAT and fees, which was a bargain at the time (9 years ago).

I really cannot see how you could get a good finish on a Victorian house in London needing complete renovation for less than £60K, and probably closer to £100. If you've never done it before you're not going to be able to cut costs by doing much yourself, and you will make mistakes unless you pay for good professional advice. I'm happy to be proved wrong, but I think you would be very unwise to expect to get very far into the work for £40K. We've done houses up from scratch twice (in London) and in our most recent house just the heating, rewiring, bathroom and plumbing came to £30K, and I think we got a reasonable deal, tbh. And that doesn't include tiling, making good, decorating, blahdiblah.

It can def be worth doing, but you want to know what you're letting yourself in for. It really is no fun to run out of money half way through some crucial works.

morningpaper · 15/11/2008 13:39

You won't bother demolishing the wall once you see the costs for the rest of it

We spent 20k rewiring, new kitchen/bathroom and redecorating a tiny, tiny ex-council house in Somerset

everything is always more expensive than you plan!

morningpaper · 15/11/2008 13:40

(and we did most of that ourselves, and it was 7 years ago)

If you have 60k to spend and can stretch to 100k then do it

If not, then don't

IMO

TheBlonde · 15/11/2008 13:41

I would say 100K is more like it

elliott · 15/11/2008 13:41

I think, whatever figure you come up with, double it. We recently sunk probably over £100k into a house and still haven't done all the things we originally intended, and certainly haven't spent loads of money on top end fittings. If its been neglected for 30 years (as ours was) then you will uncover things that need doing. You should rewire. You may need to reroof. You will probably need to think about boilers and radiators. You may need to replaster various bits. What about the windows?
You say you don't need structural work but what you describe sounds fairly major - then you also have to factor in new floor coverings, decorating and curtains (this alone has cost us £10s of K - though our house is big so hard to even carpet a room for less than £1000). If you've had that amount of building work done, don't assume any existing floorings etc will be salvagable. When we moved in after 3 months of work, the place still looked like a squat!! (we literally only had kitchen and bathrooms complete and our bedrooms decorated but not carpeted, and there was still dust everywhere...)

Sorry, but I think you need to be very realistic. Things really add up.

elliott · 15/11/2008 13:43

tbh I haven't even dared add up what we've spent. I just know that we've run out of money and haven't finished yet!!

artichokes · 15/11/2008 13:47

How come the couples on 'Property Ladder' always seem to renovate for no money and make their houses look lovely???

I love this house but we will only have £40k after we buy it. The only way we could get more money is if I agree to go back to work full time after this maternity leave. If I do that then we could borrow another 100k and have £140k for a top-end renovation. I guess we need to think really carefully.

I have always loved the idea of a big renovation. Making somewhere truly yours...

(on the bright side there is a new boiler. The other one totally conked out three years ago).

OP posts:
elliott · 15/11/2008 13:50

ACtaully I've just worked out its nearer £150k but that includes all our moving expenses, stamp duty, rent on another property while the building was being done, etc etc. We also had a few structural bits to be done (though small beer in the scheme of things). And a solar panel which is not strictly necessary
And to be fair, the moment our builder saw it he said 'you do realise you could easily spend £100k on this'. So I can't say we weren't warned....though I don't think we really listened

elliott · 15/11/2008 13:52

I have to say the costings on those programmes never seem to bear much resemblance to reality - like on House Dr they always seem to carpet rooms for about £300 and decorate for £150 - each room in our house has probably taken more than £2k for curtains, carpets and decorating.

artichokes · 15/11/2008 13:54

Elliot - what area was your house in and approx what square footage is it?

Our calculation of having 40k left is after stamp duty and the cost of renting for 6 months while the work is being done. The whole 40k would just be for works.

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SummerLightning · 15/11/2008 13:57

Sorry, I reckon way more than 40K in London. We had bathroom moved upstairs, and new kitchen put in, did include removing a chimney breast and expensivish structural work mind you, and not a cheap as chips kitchen, and that cost 35K, and we're not in London.

It is nice to have something you really like though! God I love my kitchen.

elliott · 15/11/2008 14:01

I'm in Newcastle, so not an expensive area for labour (materials I guess would be pretty much the same anywhere). No idea how much square footage in house but it is 3 storey victorian house with bigger than usual rooms (but only 4 beds).
I still think you need to factor in more 'basic' work than you think - all my early plans were about how to make it 'nice' - but once we'd done all the basics, there wasn't a lot left for that! And if its been neglected for 30 years, there's not a lot of point in cosmetic renovation without putting the fundamentals in place, imo.
I agree with morningpaper's estimate really. You need to be not totally stuffed by £100k.

We are not really overstretched at all. Just having to wait a bit longer to actually be able to sit down in the lovely big front room!

BoffinMum · 15/11/2008 14:14

I suggest compromising on quality and finish a little bit, and get some of it redone when the property market picks up. Try to keep 10k back for the inevitable structural/wiring/plumbing problems. Here's a plan.

Kitchen is a dump and would need ripping out, refitting and a glass wall would be nice at the back

Forget glass wall on your budget. Pull everything out and get walls skimmed by a plasterer if they look dodgy. Install new combi boiler and possibly new radiators throughout house, with thermostats. Get cheap units from B and Q and get them professionally fitted by a local chippie. Install cheap strip lighting underneath wall cupboards as a DIY job. Replace pendant light with centrally wired spotlights as a DIY job. Consider spending a bit of money on a professionally fitted, good wooden worktop to give the impression of quality. Get bottom end of range own brand John Lewis freestanding cooker, extractor fan, freestanding fridge freezer and freestanding dishwasher, possibly also washer dryer. Do tiling yourself, only the wet areas. Paint kitchen yourself using special kitchen and bathroom paint. Vinyl or Klik Step laminate flooring.

Another kitchen upstairs would need ripping out and replacing with a bathroom and bedroom (so a wall would need building).

Rip everything out, skim walls professionally, decorate room yourself in Farrow and Ball colours, replace central pendant light with attractive spots as a DIY job, just use as a bedroom for now with a view to adding bathroom later. Try to make sure plumbing pipework and soil pipe is conveniently located for later work.

The other two (small) bathrooms would need totally replacing.

Leave plumbing as it is and just replace fixtures with similar ones in white, cheapest possible from builders' merchant. Spend a bit more on taps because these go wrong soon after installation if they are too cheap. Buy mid price stainless steel accessories (eg towel rails). Tile wet areas only, consider professional help for decent finish. Use huge mirrors a lot for effect. Paint bathroom yourself in special kitchen and bathroom paint. Vinyl flooring.

A wall would need knocking down between two bedrooms to make a double reception

You could probably afford this on the budget if you were strict in other areas of the budget. Knocking down walls isn't necessarily that expensive unless they are load bearing and need a steel RSJ, so check this out with a builder. Even putting in an RSJ will not necessarily break the bank. Consider double doors as an alternative.

The other 3 bedroom would need decorating (with new carpets, stripped wall paper etc)

Get all walls stripped and skimmed if necessary by professionals because this is a horrible job. Consider farming the decorating work out altogether for these rooms, and decorate them in Farrow and Ball colours. Contact a firm that do good priced wool carpets for rental properties and get them to put something in that is the same colour throughout the house, along the lines of light beige.

Other tips:

Always try to install electric showers over the bath if you're redoing bathrooms.

Always try to install heated towel rails if you can afford it, esp in an old house.

Try to put in at least one double fitted wardrobe per person per bedroom if you can afford it.

Try to install vanity units in bathrooms with storage cupboard underneath for extra storage.

Check heating system thoroughly and consider replacement.

Check wiring thoroughly and consider a full rewiring.

Check roof properly and see if beams are rotten.

Check damp proof course well in a Victorian house.

Check sash windows don't leak or rattle - they can often be repaired relatively cheaply if so - professional job best.

lalalonglegs · 15/11/2008 17:08

God, yes, I diodn't even think about roof and windows