To buy or not to buy - grade 2 listed house

[RosePippi]

We are on the verge of buying a 17th century grade 2 listed house. We have fallen in love with it so wouldn’t want to change anything about it.

However, I am completely terrified by the cost of insurance/upkeep/repairs.

Anyone here living or lived in a grade 2 listed house able to tell me if I’m being overly pessimistic and upkeep/ repair costs actually is not that much more than a non listed house or am I am wise to be terrified and therefore stay completely away?

Yes I own a G2. Yes I would again. It’s not for everyone though.

yes, your insurance will be more
yes, you need permission to change anything that impacts the fabric or look of the property and its surroundings. Eg you can change a paint colour with out permission internally, but changing a floor surface would.
This will take time to get approved and any materials and trades you use will cost more.

but if you love it why not?
ensure you get a proper heritage expert to do you survey, not a standard survey. And ensure your solicitor has experience of conveyancing such properties.

join the listed property owners club and use the SPAB resources and helpline.

Why is it listed? The entire building with unusual building techniques, a waterwheel, garden layout, road layout, the windows, internal features.... Not all listings are equal.

You can find the listing details on the English Heritage website... Assuming the property is in England.

It doesn't really matter why it's listed, the fact that it is means the whole property, in and out, and its curtilage is all listed.

@RosePippi if you love the house, and are happy to live with it as it is now, and there aren't any egregious changes made without consent that you'll have to rectify, then go for it.

Yes ours is Grade 11 listed, our insurance used to be via the building society that we had our mortgage with and we continued that after the mortgage was finished.

Then the BS wanted a different arrangement so we arranged our own cover. There is no extra premium for being listed and the rebuilding costs were worked out for us by the insurance company (well over 2x sales value).

I thought Grade 1 was fully listed inside and out, while Grade 2 listings normally focus just on the outside. My parents had a Grade 2 listed house and could still build an extension and upgrade things as long as the view from the street didn't change.

This is 100% wrong. The whole property and curtilage is listed and your parents would have required LBC for any extension and groundwork and internal changes that impacted the fabric or identity of the property.

listings note interesting or unique features, not everything in detail. Many G2s have interiors of note, regardless of that everything needs approval. To do so without is criminal damage.

All g2 listings are equal in terms of responsibility. What isn’t is the conservation officer in each council and how they interpret things as to what’s doable and what isn’t.

Have you found repair and general maintenance costs are a lot?

Reading some online chats, people say they are money pits due to the cost of maintenance.

We have a grade 2 listed, get quotes for insurance and see. Ours is more as it's thatched.

Upkeep / repairs other than the thatch we haven't found much difference in cost but it varies by building and what needs doing. Sometimes there is a wait for specialists but for us that was thatch.

The needing listed buildings consent is free but it does add to work, like for like it's fairly straightforward and we normally get it in a month. Trees also need permission for any work if it's in a conservation area, that's pretty easy but adds to costs, ours is about £800 every 3 years for 4 big trees. If it's a more complicated change then it's more time consuming and may involve paying for planning permission, having everyone comment on your house and can be many back and forths. May need an architect which adds to costs, we haven't needed one yet but now want to replace garden shed and need planning permission. Lots of forms and drawing and £360 to pay and 15 weeks. I love our house but hate the planning side of it. It's hard if you have someone disabled as they take zero account of it or if you want privacy, they publish every word. We have 2 neighbours who wrote 5 pages letters about each other, published in full without them realising. Gets very petty in a village.

You will use traditional materials so they do cost a bit more. As do trades with the appropriate knowledge, you are paying for a more specialist skill.

for example you aren’t buying dulux or farrow and ball, you are buying vapour permeable paint eg Rose of Jericho, you aren’t pointing in cement, you are using lime.

you buy g2 for love and as a custodian and you soon get used to living and maintaining slightly differently.

Is it sound? have all work and updates got LBC? What is likely to need doing in your tenure? I think you are rightly being over cautious, and in equal measure if you love it you will enjoy the process.

are you on Facebook? If so join the Your Old Home Conservation and repair Uk group. Read and learn and ask.

Yes, we live in a row of 6 Grade 2 listed houses on a private lane, most have replacement hardwood double-glazed windows, 2 have extensions (1 front, 1 back), all with the correct permissions. 'Conservatories' can't be all glass but must have several courses of stone below the glass, although a glass roof is fine, materials must match the originals. You can do pretty much what you like to the interior as with any other house. I do know someone who has had solar panels on a G2 listed roof for several years.

There also can be very strict rules for no obvious reason, like our 75 year old neighbour was told she couldn't have a TV aerial and another neighbour was told they could not have 6 foot fence, but needed 4 foot fence and 2 foot trellis. Though both ignored it and nothing happened.

We had to send material samples in and get them in lockdown, that was fun. It is nice to live in a historic house and preserve it. It's hard to get hold of conservation officers as they have been very cut back and sometimes you need a lot of searching to find rules. I had to read about 500 pages of documents for our shed application as we considered options that needed building regs, planning, listed buildings consent, conservation area rules, tree rules. And even then they sent it back invalid as we didn't have a floorplan of a shed, it's a rectangle.

This is not correct. @Pearlstillsinging you obviously have an easy going CO in your area.

Internal: you can’t just do what you want! You can repair not start changing layout and floors and pipe work and electrics with out LBC.
External: most COs won’t accept solar, and extensions are possible but not straightforward. In most regions permission is 6-9 months if approved.

Applications take time and detail. As long as OP is prepared for that then all will be ok. If she shares a CO with @Pearlstillsinging then she will be to, don’t assume that’s normal though.

exactly. In our pre-app we asked about a freestanding electric car charger. CO said no, she wouldn’t approve it regardless of design and style.

You are all being fabulously helpful.

So in essence, materials and specialists will cost more but I don’t have to run for the hills, it’s doable?

It is literally my dream house, I love everything old and with character.

Go for it and enjoy it OP. You have given me confidence this is for you.
do instruct a heritage surveyor though.

It's definitely doable though best to have savings though for us the expensive part has been the thatch and to check everything thoroughly, using specialists as needed. The listed buildings association you can join and it has an advice line though personally I would also check when making applications with your councils planning / listed buildings team. This is a few hundred pounds if needs a visit, you get 15 minutes free here so simple things it's free. Things do take longer but as long as you consider that it's fine. Like our shed will probably be next year. It also takes time to do paperwork, theres like 13 forms here.

I would definitely own a historic and thatched house again but would ideally prefer one not listed due to paperwork, public nature of it, some odd rules and delays.

Definitely join the FB group 'Your old house UK - repair and conservation'.

There are lots of courses around to learn heritage building and repair skills, and lots of people do learn how to work with lime, for example.

Do not trust anyone who tells you only the outside is listed, or that you need a damp proof course!

I would buy a grade 2 listed house. But I would be wary of one built as early as 17th century. That is 16 something. That does sound very old. Still I suppose the survey will show up any potential problems. But I personally wouldn't.

Ours is older and have had no issues with the age though my son was shocked when he found out the age and said how is it still standing. The conservation officer does ask things though like how was it when it was first built and then say you need it to be like that as much as possible. But then it was mud floors, no stairs, overcrowded, no inside toilets.

We recently had to get permission to move an internal door six inches to the left. It was granted quite quickly, but a request to move the hall wall, to allow for storage was refused. The architect who was working on the renovation strongly suggested that we didn’t ask for any structural work, if it wasn’t absolutely necessary.

We also have a lot of old sash windows - they cost a fortune to replace or repair.

I would say you have to love it, and you have to be committed to how to treat old buildings. You need to either be pretty aware of the issues that come with old houses, or willing to learn. It is easy to be ripped off by trades who don't know what they are doing with old houses/traditional materials etc. Have a look at SPAB - it's a great resource.

The age is irrelevant, it's how it's been maintained and cared for that's important.
A standard survey will bring up lots of issues because a standard surveyor will be working to modern build and not understand what they are looking at - that's why it is so important to use a heritage surveyor. They will highlight things but also be well placed to tell you what's an actual concern and what is not.

We have a grade 2. It’s a gorgeous house and because it was a renovation project we’ve done a lot of work to it, all approved. So long as the changes are sympathetic to the design, you shouldn’t have any problems.

Insurance-wise. It doesn’t seem to be much more.

Trust me, I have friends in new builds that have encountered more problems. Our house has been standing for over 200 years and is still going strong!