Why do landlords refuse tenants who need to childmind from home?

[Bangonthedoor]

Hi everyone!

Im writing on behalf of a very desperate friend.

My friend lives with her husband and two young children. Her husband is a self employed painter/decorator and my friend is a self employed childminder. They privately rent.

A month ago, they were given notice to leave their privately rented property as the landlord wants to sell. They are having immense difficulty finding a rental 2-3 bedroom house where the landlord is ok with her being a childminder! Every house they have viewed has been a ‘no’ because my friend will be having a handful of children in the house each day and running her business from there. They now only have a very short amount of time to find somewhere!

I am asking if there are any landlords here that will be able to provide an answer as to why (other than the potential mess and finger marks on the walls) and if there is anything at all that could be said or agreed to change a landlords mind. Are there any loop holes?

Thank you for reading!

The childminder has to have their own insurance to cover injuries to peoplr visiting the house and damage to property ordinary house insurance do doesnt cover it even if its your own house.

That's true, but it's more complex in a tenant / landlord situation - most landlord policies would be voided by a tenant running a business from home, even if the tenant had insurance for their business.

Insurance is a huge issue.

But its not generally counted as running a business from home for example council tax doesnt count it and restrictive covernants normally dont apply.

You’re not usually allowed to run a business, lease terms might prevent it, if it is a leasehold. The landlord might also need a different and more expensive building insurance. And also, I’d say it’s a given that there will be damages to the property (I only have one toddler and my flat looks nothing like it did when there only were two adults living in it). Basically the landlord would need to accept higher running costs and higher renovation costs at the end. Plus potentially legal problems if they break the lease. Unfortunately just not worth it.

That’s interesting. As a landlord I wouldn’t have known childminding didn’t count as a business in that sense. I suspect that it would still count for insurance though, and couldn’t take the risk of it voiding my policy. So if a tenant wanted to childmind I’d need the insurance company to confirm that’s ok, which again is extra hassle and admin time for me, so it’s not an attractive option really.

There are many ways to run a business from home without your LL finding out abut it. However when the business is something as visible as child minding many LLs are going to say no. Apart from all the reasons PP up-thread have mentioned (insurance, extra wear and tear, legal) there is a real possibility of complaints from neighbours re noise and parking issues at pickup and drop off times. The suggestion of your wife to work as a nanny (or say that she does) would sit better as it takes the childminding aspect away from the home.

In theory the new legislation makes it an offence for LL/agents to discriminate against tenants with children. However I have seen postings on LL forums where this is discussed. If a LL has 20 couples apply for a rental and some of them are child free couples with stable jobs then all the LL has to say is the decision was made on affordability grounds. It would be very difficult to prove otherwise.

Insurance is the biggest, next on the line would be getting noise complaints

I’m a landlord and I would never allow this. As PPs have said, liability and insurance are the major factors. Also, I would then be fending off endless complaints rom neighbours being blocked in by people double parking and dropping off their kids. Plus the extra noise from inside the property and the multiple early morning drop offs. Neighbours who I would want to keep on side.

Well if a cleaner injures themself or a child who is unsured to pay out?

Huge amounts of wear and tear and I’d never inflict the noise on the neighbours not to mention all the parking and people traffic at drop off and pick up.

Most leases say you cannot run a business "at" or "from" the premises. There are ways around this but not if people actually come to the home regularly to consume a service or buy goods. Then you get snitching neighbours whinging about car parking issues and noise.

One of my tenants is a childminder.

I had to change my insurance company as my original one wouldn’t cover it. It’s a bit of a pain as it’s with a company that costs more so the two properties I have (which are right next to each other) now have different insurers. Many landlords wouldn’t be prepared to deal with the extra cost.

Noise and parking issues are the other things that could be problematic. My two tenants are mother and daughter so my other tenant is very happy to have her daughter childminding next door. The properties also have two parking spaces each but only one tenant has a car so there’s space for drop offs and pick ups.

Both are saving deposits to buy and want to buy the properties they rent from me so that set of (I think unique) circumstances is why I was ok with it.

I can totally understand why some wouldn’t. The parking especially can just cause an absolute headache for landlords in terms of complaints.

@DeftWasp I'm self-employed (tutor) and my husband works in social care. Our landlady had no issues in allowing us to rent her property which was highly sought after; she thought the closeness of our family (my parents in village and helping out with childcare) was lovely.
We privately rent because we can't afford to buy a suitable property in the location we need.
We have been here four years and never once missed a payment.
In total I've been renting for over a decade - originally as a single parent - and again, never once been late with a payment.
It's the childminding business in this case which is (understandably) an issue.

This. Quite a lot of insurance companies will not insure any property if a business is run from the house.

I would allow a person to be a registered childminder if they were renting one of my houses. I'd be pleased both parents were working as they would be more likely to be able to pay the rent. Where about are they looking to rent?

Tenancy agreement as standard don’t usually allow a business to be run from the property, also the wear and tear would be so much greater. You could try offering higher rent than is asked for to cover the extra footfall and have agreement within tenancy to redecorate the rooms used for child minding such as hall, lounge, kitchen, downstairs loo every 3 years and at end of tenancy. As a landlord that might sway me.

Two SE people wouldn’t have made it past my lettings agent in the last number of years (I’ve sold them all now). Childminding on top would mean they had no chance,

There are so few properties now that it’s the LL’s choice. The recent changes have made it worse; people are now even more likely to want employed couples with no DC or pets since it’s almost impossible to get anyone out.

The childminding regulations changed about a year ago to allow for childminders working on non-domestic premises.

She could rent a small hall or series of rooms. Churches and community centres are often a good place to start.

There is absolutely zero chance I'd rent to a business. Any business. Increased traffic at drop off pick up annoying the neighbours extra wear and tear possible liabilities that's a hard no from me and I'm fairly sure it's in all the tenancy agreements

lowering the value of the property and of the neighbourhood. More traffic and callers to annoy neighbours. Gardens usually are neglected and messy.
Have a look at some houses where they do child minding. They will not be the most attractive in the street.
Set up a proper business, plenty of empty shops available.

All of the reasons above but also because there is a real lack of rentals available in most areas so Ll's can pick and choose Tenants and a childminder and a SE husband may not be seen as great prospects when there are other options

Gosh I love a thread where people come along to give advice they advice about something they know nothing about.

Childminding is not running a business from home. It does no involve changing usage of the building or paying business rates.

It is classed as working from home and all CMs wil carry PLI as a condition of their registration.

It’s still not going to be popular with LL’s, for a variety of reasons.

Which is fine, but i am addressing the posts which say it's because of the reasons I stated.