Is £12k too much for a basic Howdens kitchen supply only?

[Charlock]

Hi,

Getting a new kitchen. 15 units, 4 towers, couple of wall cupboards, small peninsula. Opting for basic doors, laminate worktop, basic appliances. £12K? Pretty shocked tbh. Priced up similar on DIY Kitchens, came out at £8.5K. Obv they don't have same overheads so can keep costs lower but still. And that's with decent appliances too.

I don't like the whole smoke and mirrors pricing situation with Howden's at all. Like I can't even just swap out the appliances and worktop and see how much that takes off because they only give you the total number. Do I just say what I can get it for elsewhere and see what they do? Both the designer and the joiner were like yeah, that's the price with the trade discount, nothing we can do.

AIBU to think 12K for an economy, no bells and whistles kitchen is a bit much? (Price for materials only.)

Partner is a carpenter and has fitted many Howden kitchens as well as other brands.

They allow the fitter to add a mark up on the units of whatever value they chose. Could be 5% or could be 15%. You wont know as it comes direct on the quote.

You can ask them to take items like appliances off your quote, when we looked there wasnt much savings buying their brand so we went elsewhere for better quality.
Worktops we went elsewhere as we wanted solid wood and it was half the price at worktopsdirect.com so definitely look around. Likewise with the handles, half the price from places like ironmongry direct. Gives you more choice and flexibility on price.

The only thing to consider based on the amount of units you have is Howdens come built, they just need the legs putting on, whereas some other suppliers are flat packed which adds quite a bit of time for the fitter.

The kitchen fitter (buying the units) often gets a 75% - 85% discount on the RRP on Howdens kitchen units, so if the fitter is only giving his clients a 25% discount on the RRP, then the remaining 50%-60% of the Howden discount goes straight into the Fitters’ pocket..

Not how it works. He tells them what he wants and gets given a price. Its up to him if he puts a markup on this price to give to the customer. Usually dependant on how much time hes had to put into the quote, how much work is involved, if hes supplying or fitting, if theyre having other work done etc. If he does, then howdens can create a quote with his markup on with the breakdown for the client so they can see the breakdown of each item.
Supppsedly the more the tradesman spends with them, the bigger discount they get but you wouldnt be able to notice this as prices increase each year.

We had kitchen quotes in 2017, and our carpenter (a friend) said he would pass along the discount entirely to us. So I received all of the Howden’s quote paperwork - with all items listed, and a column showing how much discount the carpenter would get. This didn’t include appliances, but all doors / cabinets / fascias etc were listed on the quite as discounted by 75%-85% off ‘RRP’. Obviously this paperwork is not intended for the end-user. I think there was either an unpriced version or an RRP version, for the fitter to pass on to their client, at which point they can decide what discount to pass on to the client.

If this pricing policy has changed since 2017, then that is great news. But certainly that’s how it was with Howdens in 2017 (I still have all the paperwork).

Howdens can alter a quote to suit the fitter. He can have a quote showing the price to him, then ask them to do a quote with 10%markup, and will then get a quote to give to the client, printed by howdens. They look identical so you will never know of there had been a markup on them or not. The client can even pay howdens direct then the markup amount will be left on the fitters account for them to withdraw/use.
The discount on the quote isnt how you think it is.
Like I said, partner is a carpenter and uses them direct so I would be more inclined to trust what he is saying that second hand information you have from a friend who could've lied to you or not. We got our kitchen from them in 2017 so its not a new thing either.

The carpenter (our friend) let me go into Howdens with his account number, so they dealt with me (not the carpenter). I was the one who dealt with Howdens entirely, I was the one agreed the kitchen layout for the quote, while sitting next to the Howdens designer. I was the one who was handed the itemised quote by the Howdens kitchen sales person at Howdens. It was just ‘bought’ through the carpenter’s account. Listed discounts on RRP were 75% and 85% on the quote. I still have the paperwork. I am not lying.

Im not saying he has definitely added a markup, but my partner allows clients to do this too. Before giving a price, they will ring the person whose account it is and check its ok to go through their account, and ask if they want to add a markup, or they will have a set markup on their account.
My partner has worked with many tradesmen, many of which will tell the client they are giving it for cost whereas in reality they are adding a markup. This is their livelihood.

It does sound a fair bit. I think the trade discount varies according to tradesman so a different fitter may get it cheaper.

That said, our Howdens kitchen was installed 15 years ago (solid oak) and still looks amazing and pretty much like new, so it may be a case of getting what you pay for.

I was authorised to get the total trades discount. The sales person at Howdens was really shocked at this, and did ring to check (while I was sitting there with the Howdens salesperson). I have just checked back in the quotes paperwork. The discount is predominantly 75%, but some items were discounted at 85% (not sure why). This did not include appliances. So the quote was for a large kitchen and utility room, with integrated large fridge, fridge and dishwasher (so doors / housings for those), extra wide drawers and high-level top-opening kitchen cupboards, handle-less. The quote was for £5700 (not including appliances), so presumably the ‘full RRP’ quote will have been around £20k.

Kitchen fitters will obviously charge for fitting / labour, and there may be a time / admin component to either ordering the units (if the client doesn’t go in to Howdens themselves), and to re-ordering anything if the need arises when it is all on site.

But what I think is a bit wrong is the way that some kitchen fitters have the ability to say to a client - here is a quote (£20k RRP), but I can get a 25% discount, so you only pay £15k - where in reality the kitchen fitter is only paying £5k for the kitchen units, and is also charging appropriate labour and maybe commission to the client (meaning that the fitter gets an extra £10k bonus out of the deal, that the client knows nothing about). I am sure not all fitters do this though.

My big problem is that it all lacks transparency, so is very difficult for the client to know if they are getting value for money, or not. Or at least this was the case in 2017.
(edited to correct my maths - it’s a hot day!!)

Have you looked on the ex display kitchens, a few different companies but some absolute bargains

We used DIY kitchens to do our utility room and to add some extra cupboards to our kitchen. We were going with white units and grey doors for the utility room and wood effect for the kitchen to match in with existing units. When we put the order in they queried if we had intended to have units in different orders before processing it which we appreciated.
There was very minor damage to one of the units in the utility room. They offered to replace the unit but this would have delayed the installation or they could send us a free end panel. We accepted the end panel. We spent £1000 on 2 double floor units, and 4 double wall units, this was 2021/22 and fitted them ourselves. We had worktop offcuts from a previous kitchen install that we were able to make use of so it was only the units we had to install. We installed push to open devices instead of door handles.

We have previously had Howdens kitchens and cupboards were fine but the worktops were terrible and "blew" from water damage on the front edge - this section of work top wasn't near water and it wasn't a cut edge. In the next kitchen we had a second hand Howdens kitchen which was 3 years old and one of their higher spec kitchen units. We were pleased with the quality but we bought an egger worktop bought from a worktop specialist and fitted by a family friend.

Yes, and get your appliances from Euronics. 5 year guarantee on some brands.