Chelmsford vs Hertfordshire (Potters Bar)

[JumpinJellyfish]

Currently live in east London and thinking of moving for access to better schools for our kids (currently year 3 and year 1).

DH works near Liverpool Street/moorgate and I work between Paddington/South Ken, so both of these areas would work transport-wise. We love London but also want a bit more space. Pros and cons of these areas or other suggestions welcome!

Budget up to £1.4m for a 4-5 bed but would be nice to spend less.

Bishops Stortford has good schools and transport links

Thank you @OnlyMabelInTheBuilding - I have considered it too, probably behind the others in my list so far but still a contender.

Paddington would be a real trek from Chelmsford, I wouldn't want to do that commute.

Otherwise it's a lovely place to bring up children, loads to do and you'd get a great house for your budget. The schools are very full for in-year entry though, you'd likely struggle. Masses of houses built in recent years but only one new school (which is very popular and very full).

Thank you @ChelmsfordNameChange - it’s actually not too bad (50 mins) as can hop on the Liz line at Stratford. I’m in 2-3 days per week whereas DH is 4 so id be happy to take the hit on the commute if everything else worked ok.

I think we would be aiming for the grammars and could probably cope with commuting to existing primary until spaces came up, which is one of the reasons we are considering it. Obviously aware they are crazy competitive but the kids are academic (so far).

Mmm... have you actually tried it? I normally commute to Liverpool St (and have done for nearly 20 years) but I went to an event in South Ken recently and it took bloody ages. You need to factor in getting to the station, the time it takes to change trains, waiting for trains, and walking to the office. I might consider it once a week but you'll be exhausted doing it more. Plus getting home in time to pick up from after-school club will be tricky.

You would definitely want to be living as near the station as possible.

Everyone moving from London is aiming for the grammars... 😁 Fortunately they're so selective, most of the secondaries are pretty good (and primaries are generally all good).

I don't mean to be negative, but I do London 1/2 week, my partner 2/3, and we're knackered 😂

Thank you - no, haven’t actually tried it - just going on Google maps! However I don’t need to commute in peak times so was hoping it would be doable. DH works at Liverpool st so would be straightforward for him.

Are there particular areas near the station that are nice?

For your budget try brookmans park?

@JumpinJellyfish Old Moulsham is popular and expensive (but a 20+ minute walk), and Beaulieu is very popular with Londoners (it has a new station, but you have to drive to it).

Personally if I had the money I'd go for somewhere around Maltese Road or Mildmay Road because I like Victorian houses. But there are nice, big houses dotted around all over Chelmsford.

With Potters Bar I am assuming that you are looking at Dame Alice Owens as your grammar school? It’s insanely difficult to get into through the exam route- proper hot house tutoring territory. The housing catchment is tiny, approx 250m and they are trying to bring in that you have to go to certain primary schools and live in the catchment because the catchment places were all full of people with kids in private schools or had moved from places like Hadley Wood.

Chelmsford is a much bigger town with a lot more going on than PB but the commute to Moorgate is very straightforward. Primary schools are good but secondaries are an issue if you don’t get into DAO.

Thanks @Twilightstarbright yes exactly. I think we would probably try for the academic test for DAO as a back up but DC1 is musically gifted so that would be our main route. Appreciate it’s a huge gamble mind you but on other hand would mean our other 2 kids wouldn’t have to go through the whole rigmarole so it is tempting.

@JumpinJellyfish fair enough. I would just research what the alternative is as the music route is also very competitive. I think Chancellors in Brookmans Park has a music route but I know very little about it.

I know, it’s a huge gamble all round as whatever we choose we would be moving house for it. If anyone has any intel on the standards of kids who got music places at DAO that would be great. (Fwiw DS is 7 and is grade 6 on 2 instruments atm after 2 years of lessons).

Re DAO, I was going to suggest you asked on elevenplusexams forum, but I think you've already asked there(?) I would think there will be a lot of applicants with high music grades (including many who get in under the exam, and not even through the music route). I personally wouldn't move to Potters Bar specifically on the off chance. However, I guess you would need to move to be in catchment for the test. Someone suggested Brookmans Park upthread. That's in catchment, but not on the fast train line.

Thank you - yes I did and not much clarity. And yes, we’re not in the catchment now which is unfortunate!

It feels likely probably too much to put on DS though I am pretty sure he has what it takes (we are a family of musicians so I do know what I’m talking about).

So if you move to PB, either
a) DS gets in - and it sounds like he has a chance. (But there are a lot of amazing musicians there.)
b) DS doesn't get in - what would you do then? Do you have a good answer for that? Are there alternative schools? Do you like PB anyway? Are there other in catchment areas that give you more options?
If you have a solution for b), then I guess DS wouldn't feel too much pressure.
If you would be devastated at b), you need to find an alternative place to move, where you wouldn't be devastated, and there are alternative school options.

I think probably the more sensible plan would be to move near to a good backup that is still in the DAO priority area, which I’m still thinking about. It’s less appealing as would mean that if he did get in to DAO we wouldn’t be that close by, but these are all the things to be weighed up I suppose.

Id move to Hertford or St Allbans.

I live in (and really like!) brookmans park but i think you should consider the secondary school options outside of DAO before making any decisions. It’s also slow train line but you can drive to Hatfield or potters bar for fast train if that’s a problem. Might be worth looking at cuffley too.

Chelmsford is nicer, in that it is less congested and cleaner. It is quite far out though but if you don’t mind the commute, you probably won’t regret it. I wouldn’t recommend Hertford, the traffic is horrendous. Broxbourne has a much better station with great schools and with your budget, you could find somewhere very nice. It’s close to woodlands, so you will have fresh air on your doorstep.

I don't think Hertford or St Albans are in catchment for DAO, if that's a consideration. BP is, of course, and is a nice place to live.

It’s less appealing as would mean that if he did get in to DAO we wouldn’t be that close by Plenty of children commute. You see lots on the train.

With that budget you could stay in London but move to a nice suburb, which would make the commute easier and access good schools. Some areas that spring to mind include Mill Hill, Winchmore Hill, Southgate. Woodford Green.

Agree, with this budget, OP can stay in London zone 1 mew house or big 1200 sq ft+ apartment, zone 2-3 in a 4+ bed terrace, or detached in zone 4 onwards. I wouldn't recommend moving so far away unless you have local connections like grandparents. You see your kids more if you spend 2hr less a day commuting. Time spent with kids is more important than anything.

Growing up in London is amazing. DH and I had a blast. With access to public transport, kids can go to places on their own at 12yo, lots of activities for toddlers and primary school kids.

World class teachers for extra curricular activities like ice skating, music and tennis. Horrible to be their taxi driver until they get a driving licence. It is exhausting to do long commute. Season ticket isn't cheap. Many companies are asking staff to do more days in the office. I know people at work who moved far away for schools, then their kid can't get into the desired schools, can't sell their house and stuck with long commute and private school fees.

@JumpinJellyfish have you factored in that the next step for a musically gifted child at that age is a JD at a music school on a Saturday? Where are the current music teachers based? What family/friend/childcare support could you rely on at either place?

For that budget look at Brentwood or better still, Shenfield - you’d get a lovely house, would both have a faster commute (especially if you needed to get back in an emergency), you’d be in catchment for both the Chelmsford and Southend Grammars. If that plan didn’t succeed, the state secondary schools are excellent and the independent ones would welcome a musically gifted child.

@TempleHill we live in a zone 3 terrace atm and I agree on the benefits of that, but there are no good schools nearby and we can’t afford private, so the purpose of the move is to be close to a great school for the kids so they’re not doing a long commute. I’d rather take the hit on the commute so the kids have shorter days.

@Netaporter yes DC1 will go to a JD. But all of the places we are looking at would be commutable to any of the JDs. Kids travel from eg Ireland and Wales to the JDs so London commuterville once a week would be fine. We’ve got no family support anywhere, including where we live now. Have friends through school and would hope to build that again. Shenfield is a great option - thank you!

Couple of options for you:

Walkable to the station - been on the market for a while so you can probably bid lower on this, but all done, not much work required beyond adjusting decor to your taste. St Mary’s catchment (church school so in year places are rare but it is excellent nevertheless) plenty of off street parking (essential as there are on-road restrictions during commuter hours) downside, no garage.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/172964468#/?channel=RES_BUY

Quieter road, bigger garden, slightly longer walk to the station. In catchment for Becket Keys secondary school.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/87736497#/?channel=RES_BUY

Private Road on Hutton Mount

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/168654236#/?channel=RES_BUY

Short walk to Brentwood station, lovely quiet road
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/173258702#/?channel=RES_BUY