Kitchen renovation - where to begin?

[rajanm]

We're planning to knock down a load bearing wall between our kitchen and living room, potentially build a utility room in the space, add a roof lantern, replace bi-folds with a window, install underfloor heating and new flooring.

On top of all that we need to install a kitchen within this new space. It's tempting to go with one company that can do all of this but equally I know people have had great, more affordable experiences using companies like DIY Kitchens and Handmade Kitchens of Christchurch.

My question is, what's the best way to approach this as it isn't a straightforward like for like kitchen replacement?

I think we should get someone in to take a look at the space first and get some design ideas but I also have no idea how much any of this will cost hence why going with one company seems like the simplest approach.

Thoughts would be welcome!

Assuming your house is not listed, does not need significant upgrades to the electrical/plumbing system and does not require a leaseholder’s permission, here’s where I’d start:

1. get loads of inspiration about what you’d like the end result to look like.
2. work out where your services are- it’s less expensive to tap into existing waste pipes than move them (but that is not impossible) moving services costs £’s.
3. draw what you’d like on a piece of paper including dimensions. Unless you are having a range, Appliances are generally 600mm wide (accepted that you can get a slimline dishwasher 450) and you can opt for an American fridge, but you get the drift. ChatGPT can help you with this. If you don’t think you can manage it, you can take a simple plan to a kitchen designer for ideas (you’ll need the finished ceiling height, exact placement of windows and doors) they’ll provide a costing based upon installation into a shell.
4. you need a builder to create the shell and structures within the shell such as the utility room walls. Get three quotes - ideally using someone recommended personally. Look and examples of their work, read carefully their reviews.
5. You or The builder will need to engage a structural engineer to calculate the beam required to support the load bearing wall being removed. Building control will need to involved to sign this off (don’t skip this bit, it’ll be tricky to sell your house without sign off) The builder can leave you with a finished shell ready for a kitchen install. Ideally let the builder use his preferred electrician and plumber to create the services required for your kitchen/utility etc. You can advise the builder which lantern/doors you want and either he or you will order them (it’s cheaper if you do) but always try and get the manufacturer of the lantern/doors to both measure and fit to reduce hassle if they break/malfunctions/leak.

most builders will try and get you to use Howdens for a kitchen etc. they don’t like unfamiliar. Stick to your guns. Always be clear about who is ordering what. Be clear on switch/socket/light placement because moving them costs £’s, ditto adding more in. Carefully think about how you live and what you need. If you want concealed bins/toasters/boiling water taps/pot boilers think about all of this before you start so they can be planned in. Installation of UFH is a big job. All skirting boards/doors etc need to come off before being reinstalled afterwards.

In your shoes and assuming you’ve no experience of managing a build project I’d find a builder who can leave you at the point of a finished shell (painted or plaster finish) and flooring installed ready for your preferred kitchen installer to finish the job off. Costs will vary massively depending on where you live, what appliances you choose, your finishes and how much hassle factor there is ( for example if you have no off street parking/live on a red route etc).

Good luck!

Great advice there from @Netaporter

I would add - draw scale plans of the “existing” and then a set of “proposed”. It’s not tricky - buy a scale rule online and use 1:20 if you can fit on an A4 sheet (1:50 if you can’t)

Also draw “elevations” of all the walls which show windows, doors, existing electrical/plumbing points. If you do one base set you can then do rough mark ups over the top on tracing paper. Just remember to put a date and number on each mark up so you don’t get muddled later when trying to find your favourite. Or compare options.

If that feels a bit too much DIYKitchens have a good online planner. You can put in all the room information and then play about snd see 3D views, or pay a small fee and they can do you a layout. I think if you give them all the measurements they might also put the room in for you.

once you have plans of existing and proposed (always keep the two sets on separate drawings) post them on here for advice/suggestions

the main thing to remember is that it’s free to draw and change the plans. Take a lot of time experimenting on paper and thinking as once works starts all changes will end up costing money.

lastly whats your budget?

Thanks for all the info. We have a rough idea of what we want but still aren't sure if we've hit on the exact layout so really need expert design input.

Is it worth us doing this:

1. Hiring an independent designer to nail down the design. This will dictate what internal walls we might need to build and whether we really should replace our bifolds with a window.
2. Send the design off to the likes of DIY Kitchens, Howdens etc for quotes
3. In the meantime, get initial quotes from builders for the building works and things like ufh etc.
4. Once happy with kitchen company and builder, hire a structural engineer to do calculations.
5. Hire builder to do all the works before kitchen fitting.
6. Install kitchen etc and have builder finish off decorating or anything else that's better to do after installation.

What do you think?

I recommend that you don’t do what we did - tear old kitchen out, before deciding and ordering new kitchen. I honestly don’t know what we were thinking.

Mind you, it could have been worse. We had the kitchen fitted in Dec 2019, through Jan 2020. If we’d left it for a couple more months….

By the way, we used DIY kitchens. Brilliant quality for the price.

My thoughts:

1. you Could do this for free with AI.
2. howdens won’t deal with members of the public, it is the most opaque buying process. I avoid as a result. Ikea is far easier to deal with plus you can get custom fronts made by specialist firms.
3. definitely get quotes once you know what you need.
4. your builder might have a preferred SE. They are really busy so using an existing relationship is no bad thing.
5. yes.
6. definitely do not allow anyone back into a kitchen once it is fitted to do decorating unless you are watching like a hawk or have completely covered your new kitchen. Get paint on the walls before you fit it.

bottom line, you can do it cheaper if you understand the process but you Coukd also end up spending more if no one carrying out the works has an existing relationship with each other. It is a minefield I’m afraid.

You haven’t indicated your budget or how big the space is? It’d be easier to help if we know this.

The reason we're a bit nervous with doing our own design is what if we're a couple of cm out with our measurements? And we also need some advice on the best layout.

In terms of size, see attached image. The wall with the arrow is the one thing we're definitely removing. We're likely to block up one of the doorways (either kitchen or living room). We're also think we may remove the bi-folds which cover the width of the kitchen and replace them with a window. We'd move our sink to there too.

We're thinking budget wise £50k all in for wall removal, flooring, underfloor heating, new internal walls to be built, a couple of skylights to be installed, new window and blocking up of the bottom half where the bi-folds were and purchase and installation of the kitchen (maybe from DIY or Handmade Kitchens of Christchurch)

@rajanm can you make the image a bit sharper? The dims are lost on the photo.

Yes, sorry is this better?

How did you work out what to order though? I would be clueless.

I’m not suggesting you use Wren but they can do that thing like on your Home made Perfect. It gives you an idea of what it all might look like.

Do they provide you a plan with measurements etc?

We've recently renovated what had been a derelict property. We removed the wall between the old kitchen/lounge, added a double extension and added bifolds. Some thoughts:

-What is access like to get to where the wall will be removed? We had to have steels put in, but have very good access either side of the house, so the lorry backed up 1 side and they used a dolly thing to manoeuvre the steels in. The house across the road needed their steels craned over their house to reach the back!!!
-We went to several high st kitchen shops and nearly all were happy to come out and draw a basic plan which they gave us. Only 1 company, an expensive, independent place nearby wouldn't give us the plan. He did come out to measure and we could see the design in the shop, just not take it home.
-We ended up going with a local man who works from his house. He could supply all manner of kitchen doors, carcasses, handles and inserts. We ended up with solid wood and the door design I loved for a fraction of the cost. He came around several times and was brilliant in terms of planning and suggesting things we hadn't thought of- leaving enough space so if the dish washer door is open, you can still walk past. Stopping doors from clashing etc. You could try asking on next door or facebook in your area for any independent type kitchen suppliers.
-As part of the build, we had a carpenter who installed the kitchen for us.

On a separate note- get drawers everywhere! Also check the size of the plug hole. We have a butler sink and I wrongly thought all plug holes would be the same. Ours is woefully small and blocks daily. I can't use the little filter basket because that blocks every quicker. Its the one thing I hate.

The build will cost more than the kitchen fit. Do you have a budget in mind? It may be totally infeasible. I’d suggest working out what you can and what you want to afford before you get too carried away with any plans.

We're looking at about £50-£55k in terms of budget

I’d get some builders to quote. I am not convinced you will do what you say with that budget.

ensure quotes are like for like. For example skips, removing waste off site, scaffolding (if required).

Sorry this is so blurry but from what I can tell your house has previously been extended and beams installed to resupport the First floor joists and outside upper wall. That complicates things if you want to take our the entire wall. If you have a rear extension with a sloping roof then probably all the wall "north" of my red dashed line will need to be kept.... So the new opening/wall removal will probably be smaller that you were hoping - but could still be nice. If you have a flat roof is the level of that higher than the first floor joists? If not, same comment applies.... You may have to have a post near where my yellow mark is (although not as big as I have drawn) and there may be ways to avoid this and spread load out into a frame but it will depend on lots of different things and isn't exactly cheap. Do you have a photo of the back of your house?

Yes the roof is flat and that is indeed an extension. It feels like the wall is hollow (and thicker) in the extension part.

Before we pay for a structural engineer, could a builder give us a rough idea of what's possible?

Have a look in your buyers pack from when you bought your house. Look for the Building Regs Completion certificate. You might also find copies of the plans or if not, Youll see which Building Control signed off the plans so you can maybe get copies. Once you know what is going on with the existing structure, you can get an idea of how to alter it. For example if there’s a steel post hidden in the wall (by my yellow mark) then you might be able to remove the extension walls but leave the column. If there’s no steel column you may have to get a post installed to get rid of the walls…. Get hold of the plans and then post here for suggestions

@rajanmI have just knocked a wall down between 2 rooms and had a couple of new doors put in and RSJ for the supporting wall. That plus a new floor downstairs (75m2) we went into hall and sitting room for that.
So no kitchen, no fittings.

Cost will be around £37k including vat.

We got an architect to do basic drawings and get our certificate of lawfulness and needed a structural engineer for the basic structure. These costs were on top. Probably £ 2-3 thousand.

I don't think £50k will cover it