Bedroom Chimney Breast – Space, Character & Structural Considerations

[Poppie2023]

@pigletjohn and others,

Apologies if this feels familiar – I’ve posted a slightly different version before, but I haven’t made a decision yet, so I’m hoping for fresh perspectives.

I’ve bought a Victorian two-bedroom property. The ground floor chimney breast was removed before 2013, and in bedroom 2, directly above, the breast is still intact, with the stack running into the loft. There are no visible cracks or sagging, and the level 3 survey didn’t flag any issues, though I’m challenging the surveyor’s oversight. We’ve tried lifting floorboards but can’t see how it’s supported, so this weekend I plan to fully lift them to get a better look.

Options I’m weighing:

1. Remove the breast in bedroom 2 and install proper support for the stack. S.E Plans involve an RSJ running from one bearing wall to the other, which may be on display in bedroom 1 and 2. Builders are giving conflicting advice – some say it can be concealed in the ceiling, others say it must be boxed and visible. This is a major concern, especially since I’m keeping the chimney breast in bedroom 1 and don’t want an awkward junction where the beam meets it.
2. Leave the breast in bedroom 2 and see if it can be supported from the lounge ceiling below, (there’s a small chance existing support is already in place). Only, I would need to payout for new structural engineer plans .

Other considerations:

• Removing the breast would gain 26 cm of floor space, but would be costly, messy (scaffolding, skips), and involve damage to ceilings/floors. Quotes vary widely: some builders offer £4–5k (who didn’t seem concerned with engineer calculations), others £8–12k (who requested calculations).
• Bedroom 2 fits a double bed, though the chimney breast limits flexibility. Alcove storage is possible.
• I like the character of the chimney breast and want to retain it. I also understand the importance of proper support.
• I worry about soundproofing once removed.
• Long-term, the loft could be converted into a bigger bedroom.
• Funds are available, for the chimney removal and support but this work isn’t what I’d originally budgeted for.
• Given the level 3 Survey didn’t flag it and the bank’s valuation survey approved it for a mortgage, I’m wondering if I’m overthinking this or taking on too much.

I’d love to hear from anyone who’s faced something similar: is the extra space worth the cost, hassle, and potential visual disruption of the beam, or should I leave it and keep the character?

I should say, the house is in need of some serious uplift, so any messy work would need to be done now. I don’t intend on doing structural messy work once I’ve decorated.

I think that you are over-thinking, to the point that I don't really understand your question(s).

1. If the existing breast is adequately supported at 1st floor level (which it probably is if there are no signs of distress) then just lift the boards and confirm that to put your mind at rest.

1. Leave the chimney breast where it is (it looks nice) stop arguing with the surveyor, stop talking to builders and engineers. Life's too short.

I think YABVU when there's a Property and DIY forum on Mumsnet :

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/property

If you don’t need to remove it I’d leave it.

Check that’s it’s properly supported.

Also if you were to carry out removal you’d need party wall agreement unless you are obviously detached or bizarrely only have chimneys in the middle of your home and you would need to inform your local building control and get permission.

A friends neighbour is currently having a whole heap of shit due to no party wall agreement, no building control and no structural engineer ripping out their breast. Friend doesn’t like the neighbour so is sharing all the updates.

I am sorry, but if a Level 3 Survey did not raise any issues, why are you challenging the surveyor particularly given there are no cracks or signs of movement?

I cannot follow your train of thought on this at all.

I don't know how many chimneystacks you have. Quite often the flues from the front rooms and the back rooms come together in an inverted "Y" on the loft wall, and rise through the roof in a single stack with four pots. If you are in a terrace or a semi, your neighbours flues may be in the same stack. This is significant as it is shared and you can't remove it without your neighbour's consent.

If you own the entire stack, and all your flues are permanently out of use, you can demolish and remove the chimney from the top down, and reinstate the roof over the gap. As there is no chimney above, you do not need a support for it.

If both the upstairs and the downstairs chimney breasts are to be removed, from either the front or the back rooms, but the stack remains, the flues can be removed in the loft, below the Y, and the stump above supported on steel brackets in the loft.

I’d always leave the chimney breast to retain the original character of the room
Without it it’s just a box with a vent in the wall and not that interesting
As you say it allows for shelving and storage either side aswell

Id also open up the fireplace to add more interest and bring the room back to life

This 👏👏

You don’t know how much I needed your comment 😂😂😂 I’m very much an over thinker, and cause myself unnecessary stress trying to do the right thing. I agree, life is too short, I just need to breathe. 😀

An oversight. I thought that’s where I posted.

Thanks for sharing and your advice. I know the headache that can come with a party wall agreement and have been dreading approaching my neighbours given I’ve not long lived there or know them well.

So it was noticed after purchase that the remaining chimney breast doesn’t show visible signs of support and no paperwork to confirm approval works. Unless invasive inspection is done, it’s a guessing game of either it’s not supported, so put in support or it’s been standing all this time so hopefully it won’t fall. I‘ve since seen a few level three surveys where similar situations have been identified and they mention this and advise to seek further advice not because there’s evidence of cracks or bowing but just as advise. Surely even Level 3 surveys can get things wrong, but I take your point and have even questioned this. I think we may have to explore the evasive route.

Thanks @PigletJohn for responding, I’d be leaving the stack alone, only removing the breast. There will be two other breast remaining.

I think checking is for the best as you will always wonder otherwise.

It could be supported or it might not be and it might have been ok for years then one night come crashing down.

I take it you’ve asked building control if they have any record of the works? As they should have been asked/notified as otherwise it won’t have been signed off anyway and can cause issues when selling especially now it’s been noticed. Not just the prior owners.

Agree, Thank you. It’s the reason I brought a Victorian house for the original features, so would really prefer to leave it alone, or plan B support from below.

Don’t worry life’s too short 🥳

The fairies have now moved it for you

Thanks to the "report" button,

Hi.

I bought an old fisherman’s cottage a bit back and had a similar worry to you. Sounds like a similar layout. Two double bedroom upstairs. The back bedroom had a chimney breast but the room beneath it (now part of an extended kitchen) did not.

The vendors said it was like that when they moved in, several years ago.

I did a bit of internet detective stuff and read that some cottages in the area were built like this. I seem to remember the rear downstairs room would have originally been used for storage of lobster pots etc and so would not have required a fire.

I then went on Zoopla and found all the historical property listings for the other cottages in the row. If you’re lucky there’ll be photos going a long way back. All the others were the same. Chimney breast in the back bedroom, but not in the room directly beneath. I felt reassured.

Not sure if that’s helpful but it helped me. (I don’t know if you have evidence that it was removed before 2013, in which case disregard the above. If you don’t, and are assuming, then it may not have actually been removed at all.)

Thank you @Swashbuckled thats really helpful. 😀

No help but I have an Edwardian property with fireplaces in every room. It gives so much character which is far better than getting rid and making a box room. The kitchen one has been taken out but they've left the high surround. It gives so much character. The lounge and dinging room fireplaces are functional and fantastic. Knocks blocks off modern housing.

@WeAreNotOk and @DrPrunesqualerthank you, the character is staying. I do not want a square room or the headache 😂. @JamesClyman I’ve decided the level 3 survey wins. Thank you to all who advised and contributed to this post. The months of agony and decision making is over!