Are we dealing with cowboy builders?

[Diysnotmything]

I am a very anxious person and having work done sends me in a tailspin so would love some objective opinions.

We are having our bathroom redone. Bought from reputable localshop and using their recommended installer who gave a comprehensive quote to handle the whole project.

We stupidly assumed they then get different people in to get the work done (electrician, plumber, tiler..)

We questioned it straightaway when the main guy started doing the electrics himself and were told it was just minor works and electrician would test at the end and issue certificate "if we wish" and at an extra cost. Red flag number 1.

Then we saw they used expanding foam to fill in the gaps where cables had been chased into the wall. From what we read it is kind of fine but not really best practice, so we asked for foam to be removed and bonding plaster used instead. They agreed.

Now this morning they haven't turned up, said they are on a call out job, not sure how long it would take but would let me know. Surely this could only be due to a previous job gone wrong?

I'm so anxious I am ready to call the whole thing off. What do you think?

The +s are that they were recommended by the shop, have been in business 15 years under the same name (if they were so bad they would have to change name or I'd be able to find negative reviews?), and they have taken no payment upfront.

Any thoughts?

My plumber did the electrics for my bathroom my kitchen fitter did them for my kitchen, both have additional qualifications to enable them to do that. However the main trade of my bathroom fitter is a plumber and heating engineer. He always said he didn’t tile, because that’s a trade on its own, he did fit boarded walls and flooring though, beautifully. So effectively he did the full job apart from decorating.

So I wouldn’t be put off at this stage, but I would keep a close eye on them.

Thanks @TimeForATerf that is very helpful!

Having work done is usually stressful, and it doesn't help when the builders "disappear" mid job.

Personally I would get (my tame) electrician to check the builders work, part way and when completed. I would do this at my expense so it's independent of the builder.

I wouldn't cancel the work, just because of them not appearing for 1 day.

I would also check who your contract is actually with, i.e. is it with the shop or the installer.

You need to chill out. You’ve done what you can and it’ll be fine. If it’s not then you can go to the local shop to complain and they know that.

The call out could be due to anything. Even a new customer with a sudden leak that’s found them on check a trade or something.

So the thing is that the contract is with the installer. The shop just recommended/passed on the installer's details. I am actually not sure how much of an endorsement it is, they just had a stack of the installer's business cards on their desk.

DH thinks they wouldn't risk their reputation on recommending crappy installers, but as they are independent companies I think we've put a bit too much weight on the recommendation thinking it was an endorsement when all they have done is passed on contact details.

I am not that bothered about them not turning up this morning, it is more the catastrophising of wondering why. But then if it is an issue with a previous job, it's a good sign they have gone straightaway to fix it I guess.

On the electrics we sent some pics to a couple of electrician acquaintances who said they personally wouldn't use the foam but that it doesn't really matter. They didn't flag that anything else looked dodgy. We did press the installers on electrician coming to check it after first fit, but they said just at the end is sufficient. Maybe we get one to come and check today or tomorrow before it is all plastered over?

Oh and actually talking of contract we don't have one, is that really bad?

We got a quote via email and said we wanted to go ahead. Oh god.

None of that is screaming cowboys to me. Have you looked at reviews for the installers themselves? I wouldn't expect to have a contract for a bathroom installation, that would be total overkill. Don't pay until you're happy with the work.

Ok thank you. Yes there are reviews, all positive, but most of them old, no recent ones. No reviews past 2022. Didn't realise this until recently. Is this a massive red flag?

Reviews are through checkatrade type sites as they don't have their own website. I thought if they've mostly been doing word of mouth recommendation work since maybe that would be why there is no recent review on those sites?

Not having to pay until the end was a big reassurance to us and we certainly won't. But my worry is that once everything is in place it may look good to me but that's not to say there won't be any issues down the line, or that no dodgy work/no shortcuts have been taken behind the scene?

Sounds as though they're not really using checkatrade anymore because they don't need the work. The fact that they've been trading so long is very reassuring.

No contract may not be an issue, but it's always nice to know who legally is working for you, i.e. and individual or a company.

I've had lots of work done by sole traders and not had any issues, so for me it's not a red flag.

My best tip for any works, it's to be as sure as you possible can about how you want it done, with clear drawings and instructions, so you should have to change anything mid job, unless it's a work around for an unforeseen issue.

This sounds fine to me. Your email is a contract really. Did they reply to it and send their quote in email? If so all good.

I’ve had bathroom fitters do the electrics and tiling, it’s easier for you too

dont panic. The foam sounds fine to me too. Let them carry on

My DH is a retired bathroom installer, recommendations came through our local bathroom shop. In our case, the shop wouldn’t recommend anyone who wasn’t good at their job, reliable or trustworthy. Some simple electric work he would do himself. But once he started a job, he would be there everyday at 8am, fortunately he only had a couple of occasions that he had to leave due to an emergency, but emergencies do happen with plumbing work, particularly in the winter. It’s good that you haven’t paid anything, my DH used to get 50% of day of commencement and balance on completion, just to mainly cover the cost of sanitary ware, materials and tiles etc. My DH wasn’t on Checkatrade, he did look into it, but he found out you could pay more for them not to post bad reviews, this was obviously a few years ago, so don’t know if it’s still the same.

the guy I got in to do my tiling had to correct the plumbers poor installation and turned out he also laid floors, installed kitchens (doing the electrics too) and a fair bit of joinery!
One thing with almost every trader is they do tend to disappear for half a day every once in a while - usually to do a favour for a mate.
But next time have them break down the quote so you know who’s doing what. An electrician coming in to sign off another’s work is common (and he probably left another job for a few hours to do it, as I say above).

Another vote here for don't worry.

Our kitchen and bathroom guys did all the electrics and plumbing as well - but kitchen guys has a certified Gas guy do the oven and move the boiler.

No real 'contract' as such, just an email quote specifying a brief summary of what they would be doing.

And its not uncommon for trade teams to need to do something at short notice elsewhere. When we had our last kitchen done there was a leak that needed fixing and I would have been pretty miffed if they said I had to wait until their current job had finished to sort it!!

Thank you all, your messages have been very reassuring, especially as there has still been no sign of them today and no further communication, so we have lost a day. But we have a second (albeit pokey) bathroom so not too much of an inconvenience.

Yes, detailed quote and pricing was outlined on an email from them. They trade as a limited company which has been registered for over a decade.

Good to know @Lennonjingles that the shop wouldn't have recommended someone they didn't deem trustworthy.

I think with my anxiety, it is lack of control I struggle with. Both DH and I are hopeless DIYers and know nothing about it so it feels like putting our most prize possession (value wise) in a total stranger's hands. Also knowing that if something went wrong we would be hopeless at fixing it. (as well as thinking we would be such easy targets to be duped since we are clueless)

Add to that my contamination OCD and with extra dust etc, renovations are not a happy time for me! I should be happy when it's all done though!

Are they waiting for the plaster to dry perhaps?

No, no plastering done. The guy had prewarned me when he left yesterday that the water would need to be off for a couple of hours this morning so I do think he was planning to come and something just came up. I'd understand half a day but a whole day has me puzzled. Must have been a pretty big issue!

Not heard a word since this morning. Should I say something? Wait to see if they turn up tomorrow? So nerve racking!

Just wait and see if they come in the morning. They’re not going to leave you with it half done so try and relax. Try a meditation.

Having work done is always stressful - I tend to go away for all or some of the time! It's best not to see things partway through, it's so easy to think the worst.
Why not speak to your installers and tell them this is all new to you and could they brief you on what's being done and how.
Drop them an email or WhatsApp and ask what time they're turning up tomorrow (although it's a bit late now).

im like you an got very anxious when building work was being done - id question everythign.

But it was really all fine and I shouldn't have worried.

do you have an anxiety disorder? I wish I had looked into whether I ahd one back then because my anxiety got so so bad that I ended up in psychosis becasue I just ignored it and didnt take it seriously. I dont want to scare you becasue I did have insanely stressful work situation that was beyond belief.

Did they turn up op?!

@Newgirls Yes, a bit later than previous days, so I was getting stressed they wouldn't but they are doing the work now! I still think it's a bit poor they never communicated anything further yesterday but hey.

I feel quite validated by people saying they also get very stressed by renovations, I think next time I'll try to time it for when I am away on a worktrip! And also not look at it until it is done, very nerve racking seeing it all wrecked and wondering if things are being done properly.

Sorry you went through this. Yes I have anxiety, it can be quiet for a while then something like this triggers it and everything seems overwhelming and the end of the world. I am very mentally exhausted this week!