Why would our neighbours solicitor need our contact number?

[user1471867483]

My mum owns the freehold of the property next door. She's 82 and has lived in our freehold house for 61 years. The leaseholders next door are moving and they slapped this lpe1 form in our hands to fill in with no solicitor cover letter, nothing. We haven't a clue what to do! I'm currently unemployed and mum being an OAP is on her old age pension. We cannot afford any legal fees. Then they're asking us if it's ok they give mum's contact details to their solicitor and I said of course not, as it's confidential! Why do they want to give out mums number and what can we do in this situation? I read it's not compulsory to fill in the lpe1 form anyway.

Op,

in general the law splits people into two groups when it comes to financial things.

first group, people who are not experts. A lot of consumer law is about protecting people and making sure that financial products and legal things are explained properly to people who are not experts and that these people are advised correctly by lawyers and financial experts.

second group, experts. These are people who know what they are doing and are able to buy more complex financial services and get involved in complicated legal things because they are experts.

it sounds like at some point someone who owned your mum’s home (maybe your dad, maybe a previous owner) sorted out the freehold/leasehold situation with next door. This person would have been an expert - they would have understood what they were doing.

you are now in a situation where because your mum holds the freehold (which is a complicated legal situation) she is assumed to know what she is doing and the solicitors for the neighbours are allowed to send her these forms and expect them to be filled in.

the problem from your point of view is that she isn’t an expert and neither are you.

you do unfortunately need actual legal advice as simply by owning this complicated legal right you are presumed to know what you are doing.

it’s possible citizens advice may be able to help (as clearly you are not experts) but it’s also possible that as this is legal stuff that is not in group 1 (ie you are a not expert who should have been advised correctly by experts) they won’t help.

Definitely get some advice on what you should and should not be doing.

Ultimately I'd sell the freehold, personally. It sounds like it's the source of a lot of anxiety for both of you.

Hi OP. It’s been a while since I did conveyancing but I really would urge your mum to get her own solicitor to obtain a copy of the lease and explain what her legal obligations are. You can always email the solicitor acting for your neighbours to request a copy but it sounds as though you won’t know what you will be looking for in it and therefore your mum will need her own solicitor to advise. Call around for some quotes, I don’t think I’d have charged a lot for checking a lease and outlining the freeholders obligations so don’t let this put you off.

Your mum would have been a party to the lease and had it signed and witnessed so she does have an obligation to deal with this and not just bury her head in the sand about it all.

Our house was leasehold, and our solicitor negotiated with the freeholder for us to buy the freehold, so that’s what we did. It sounds like your mum is getting no benefit from being the freeholder, and it is causing stress and hassle.

Do you have a copy of the freehold documents and leasehold documents? If not, download them from the HM Land Registry website - it should be less than £5-ish for each document. Make sure you don’t go through a third-party company to do this, as they charge £20+ for each document. (Ie make sure it is HM Land Registry website- it should have ‘.gov.uk’ at the end of the web address). These documents should clarify the length of lease, and rights and responsibilities of both parties.

Our house was built around 1905, I think the ground rent was peppercorn (or not very much at all; it’s not likely that it was being charged). I’m not sure how much the freehold is worth, you might need to take advice on this - it might only be a few thousand pounds. Or it might be a lot more. I think a lot would depend upon the length of the lease etc. You need to take advice on what the benefit of keeping it would be, compared to what the value of it is to the neighbour.

So, get the documents together, do some research, and then get some legal advice. And try not to stress, as it might result in your mum receiving a lump sum during the house sale process, if she decides to sell.

I don't understand what you've said here. The OP's mum isn't getting these requests because she's an "expert" who they are "allowed" to ask. She's getting them because she is a person who owns a freehold interest in a property which is presumably being sold on a leasehold basis, and those solicitors are required to gather information about the freehold from the owner of the freehold. Anyone who owns a property outright can decide to lease it and retain the freehold regardless of their job - they're not an expert because they own a property, although they might well get advice from an expert.

An expert in freeholds would be someone like a legal exec or solicitor specialising in property law, conveyancing, landlord and tenant and so on. OP's mum can seek advice from such an expert if she is unclear about what she's supposed to do.

No one has pointed out that the LPE1 form is the wrong form.

The LPE1 form is for the seller to complete. The buyer sends the form to the seller if the property is being sold subject to an existing tenancy.

Terminology used in this thread is also confusing and erratic.

To clarify:

Title to the property next door is leasehold. that will be a long lease - quite likely 999 years.
All land has a freehold title. If there is no leasehold title as well then the freeholder owns the land without encumbrance.

Where there is a leasehold title it is untrue to say that the freeholder owns the land and the leaseholder own the building.

What seems to be the case is that the owners next door did not ask OP's mother, as freeholder, for permission to undertake certain works. Often permission is required when certain works are carried out by the freeholder. the lease sets out the obligations and responsibilities on both sides. The freeholder can usually charge a fee for granting such permissions.

OP's mother should return the form and explain that as she is not the seller she is not required to complete it.

Yeah I came on to say just this. Why is OP being so unnecessarily obstructive. As if they're asking for the moon on a stick when her mum's obligation to fill in a form.

Why do you think that OP's mother should complete a form that says, at the top, the following:

These enquiries are asked on behalf of buyers. The Seller should only respond to these enquiries if they are the Landlord, the Management Company, the Managing Agent or the Residents' or Tenants' Association or are representing any of them.

Form can be found here: chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.lease-advice.org/files/2022/01/LPE1-form.pdf

Well obviously I didn't know it says that. Thank you.

Often permission is required when certain works are carried out by the freeholder.

Shouldn't that be leaseholder ?

LPE1 is the correct form. I think you are confusing it with the leasehold information (TA7) form which the seller leaseholder will be completing for the contract pack along other forms

Because in land law a freeholder = landlord

OP you are getting lots of conflicting and incorrect advice. If a seller is a leaseholder it is perfectly normal for their solicitor to reach out to the landlord (freeholder) or the managing mg agent with a request to fill out LPE1.

If your mum is not deriving any benefit from the freehold why not just offer to sell it to the neighbours? Then she'd be free of any hassle and would get a bit of money to supplement her pension.

Please be very careful when using AI for an issue such as this! There is no guarantee that it is correct, and it doesn't sould like you would necessarily be able to tell the good advice from the bad.
For example, I tried to generate a list of single syllable words a couple of days ago, and most had two or three syllables. It just isn't reliable in that way.

It makes me really annoyed you are the playing the "OAP" and "Unemployed" card as you prepare to ruin someones house sale and purchase. Step up and show some responsibility as a freeholder. The quicker legislation comes in to stop freeholders messing things up the better.

I’ve read your other post in the Legal section, if I were you I would find the money and get proper legal advice, not rely on strangers online.

The action is for the NDNs benefit.
They want to sell their asset and move away and need the document. As a % of the total cost involved in the sale 2-4 hr of legal fees should not be deal breaker.

It would appear as the OPs mum has not filled this out before that their legal team somehow missed this when they bought but the new buyers legal team is looking for it now.

I have absolutely no idea why my post was deleted. All I said was that, since OP is evidently unfamiliar with the legalities relating to owning this freehold, she ought to obtain competent legal advice - instead of relying on forums and ChatGPT…

It is quite bizzare sometimes which posts get deleted and which don't. 💐

my friend just bought her land her flat is on. it was £25k. so there could be a significant sum if your mother decided to sell.

Make an appointment with the CAB. Lots of solicitors do a free 20 slot. You can ask?

You could contact the citizen advice bureau too. Msybe look at what other people suggested and online and take it there. To be honest it would be worth your while sorting through it properly and just tell them you need time to make sure its all correct but you are working on it.

Having read the OPs later posts, I now think she definitely needs professional advice as the freeholder. Owning that freehold maybe very important if she also owns the house nextdoor. Selling it might cause issues for the sale of her house in the future, and at least by owning the freehold she will have some control over what happens to the neighbouring property.

something about party walls, boundary lines shared something that needs your approval