Sellers won’t budge after survey price negotiation

[Montysmoon]

Hi everyone,

We had our offer of £735k accepted on a £750k house a month ago. The house was on the market a while - about six months and had no proceedable offers in that time (other buyer were needing to sell). It’s a probate.

While the house is old (100 years ish), no major alarm bells rang during our viewings.

But our homebuyer survey flagged urgent issues like gutters in disrepair that are causing damp throughout the property. The electrics are 40+ years old so the house will need rewiring, and the boiler is also old. There are other minor issues too like decaying woodwork etc.

We have asked the vendors to consider taking £10k off the sale price as this is what has been quoted to us for the repair work to the gutters and damp. This does not include anything for electrics or anything else.

Vendors are refusing to renegotiate price. I want to push back because we simply won’t have the money to do this repair work otherwise, plus they’re not exactly inundated with other offers so they’d be silly to risk losing us.

I’m also selling so I appreciate that it’s not always straightforward just lowering the price, but given the obvious defects in the house I think it’s a reasonable sum. Does anyone agree/disagree? Advice very welcome 🙏

Wow surprised how many people think it's unusual, cheeky or unethical to request further money off once a survey confirms areas of defect or necessary spend! Offers are made subject to survey. Of course the sellers can hold at whatever price they desire, but in my experience it's completely normal, nay expected that post survey the buyer makes a go at further reductions. So, OP, in my view you've done the right thing to request the reduction. They are saying no because thats a good position for them to hold. Your choice is to call their bluff and say you are pulling out unless they take off 10k or 7k or whatever your position is. Or if you dont want to lose the property, I'd suggest going back and saying I really want the property but I need some concession towards the considerable costs I'll incurr and offer something smaller like a 4k reduction, and they might come back and offer you 2k off.

So let the other more astute buyers have it.

If the gutters haven't been maintained, then you can safely say that a lot of other routine maintenance has also gone amiss. You could be opening a huge can of worms with a house that age, and if you don't have a contingency budget for immediate/urgent repairs then I'd seriously walk away at this stage.

My concern for you would be that there will probably be more issues that arise if you buy and/or works that cost more than you expecting. If you can't afford the additional £10,000 then what are you going to do with other work that will (probably) arise? I think overextending your budget as others have said is the real issue. But re asking for a reduction, you can always ask but if I was them I"d be thinking that after paying for a survey (sunk costs) and it being a small % overall that you are very unlikely to walk away from the sale

I live in a 100 year old house. I love my home but honestly, don’t do it. It’s an expensive way of life. Buy a newer home with cavity walls, a decent loft and a good energy rating. Spend the extra money on holidays rather than making your local tradesmen rich…

It’s probably not really about their ‘reduction’ it’s probably more about what was reasonable to assume when you made the offer. I suspect they think that the issues you describe should have been factored into your asking price so no further reduction. Also, it won’t cost 10k to fix the gutters, the damp issues will resolve once the gutters are fixed.

at the end of the day it all depends what you’re prepared to pay. There is no right or wrong in these situations

This has been common for the 40 years that I've been buying houses. It's part of the point of having a survey. You offer on the house as you see it assuming that you can take your visual inspection and the disclosures of the owners at face value and adjust if you discover you can't.

If it’s a renovation project, I.e obviously not been touched/decorated for ages, old kitchen, carpet in the bathroom 😂 etc.. etc.. then you buy it knowing there is work there to be done, and it’s ’priced In’. If the house is being sold as a ready to move in property, with little to no Reno required, then I wouldn’t pay 735 knowing it needed the work doing, as you likely won’t get it back out of the house.

The house was obviously a renovation project though so it’s unreasonable to ask for a further reduction after a survey which didn’t identify any hidden issues.

All of the things you’ve listed I’ve always had to sort out when I buy a property. Standard stuff really.

No it is a regular cynical ploy that everyone is aware of and just doesn’t work unless the vendor is in a chain and desperate. Probate same is different but people still no try on the same lame tricks.

I agree with PP that maybe you are overstretching yourselves and this is perhaps the wake-up call you need to stop and rethink the whole thing?
Apart from the issues raised, is the decor ok, kitchen & bathrooms usable, what about carpets & curtains etc, were you going to be forking out for any of these as well and costed them accordingly?

As sellers a couple of years ago, we were in the fortunate position to be selling two properties and buying one but were NOT in the position of HAVING to sell both to finance our purchase.
When our buyers survey was done, we made it crystal clear that unless they discovered something catastrophic like subsidence or a collapsing roof (we already knew there was nothing of the sort) then any attempt to renegotiate at the last minute (which was an increasingly popular trend) would result in the house being immediately withdrawn from sale and remarketed.

I would never budge on this unless I was seriously desperate. I don’t get why people think you would- I’m selling my house, you take it as it is. If I didn’t do the guttering for me im not doing it for you 😭

some people won’t budge even if you think they should be desperate. Some people don’t mind waiting for taking off sale and starting again.

If you can't agree a price you need to refocus on finding and buying within your budget. Really is that simple. A mortgage's providers home buyers report..they re really only to discover if you ve enough equity in the house if the market collapse, ie that you ll take all the hit and they the bank won't. The vendors will argue the price is for the house as it is now, faults and all. In my part of London most houses are Victorian or Edwardian.... Just get a 1960s or new build if those don't appeal.
You options:

walk away,
go half's, ie 5k off, you can try.
or just hit the bullet and pay up.

We priced our house taking into consideration what needed doing - nothing structural, just a bit of modernising. Then we accepted a lower negotiated offer. There is absolutely no way I would have then come down further following a survey and we made that very clear to the buyers. I suspect if you put their nose out of joint they'll dig in.

As an aside - it's possibly not the right house for you if you're leveraging all of your finance for it and can't afford the repairs. What would yo do if there was a real issue once you'd moved in.

You sound like you’re pushing yourself too much and can’t afford the house. Thats not the seller’s problem. And as they’re not selling it to fund a move themselves, they are probably able to wait a while. We’ve sat on my late father’s house for 2.5 years so far.
And why does a gutter leak merit a £10k amount of work? You can replace gutters and pipes for few hundred, repointing the area wouldn’t cost a ridiculous amount, nor replastering the inside of the wall. And if the boiler is working it’s not urgent that it’s replaced. If you want to be able to change everything immediately you will need a big budget. I’d imagine that the house is priced as a house that needs modernisation. If it were done it would be significantly more.
I think you need to be one of three types to buy an old house (and I don’t even think of a 100 year old house as particularly old!)!. 1. Very well off with money to constantly throw at everything. 2. A builder or someone very good at diy. Or 3. Someone who can live with faults and do things gradually. And I think you would be better getting a good builder out to look at the house than a surveyor personally.

Several years ago , it took me 10 offers over 3 years to buy a property. The truth of the matter is that not all sellers are either desperate or even keen. I concluded some were not actual ''sellers'' at all but had put their property on the market for some other reason/s - unknown to me or it seems - even the agent.

Sounds like a bit of a money pit I would probably walk away leave the offer on the table if you are still keen on the house. If it has that many problems you would think the seller would be thinking a bit more carefully about your offer. As it is probate I presume the house is empty and it won't get in a better state over winter as well as taking in the extra costs like heating and rates whilst they find another buyer.

When I sold a property recent I was clear about everything that needed doing -even so, some chancers still tried to negotiate down.
No dice.

I think you need to take time to understand older properties and if buying one use a heritage surveyor that knows what they are looking at, not a general RICS one.

the two aspects you highlight as concern would be obvious to a totally non educated buyer if you’re properly viewing a potential home.

if you are going into a purchase of this property this blinkered or/and oblivious to basics It’s not for you.

AND never assume somebody’s situation. 6months isn’t long for an interesting home.

100 years doesn’t seem a big deal - after all a 1930s house is likely to be solid as a rock and easily fixed up if needed. Are 1925 houses really that different?

My feeling is that you may well have overextended yourself

Even in London £750K isnt a cheap house

Sadly that's what it boils down to, it's up to the sellers to sell it to you and it's up to them how much. Don't be afraid to walk and no house is worth getting too snowed under with extra debt imo, it's expensive enough to decorate etc.

We are in the same position, 105 year old partial timber house, under probate and on the market for 4 months. But we were aware it needed rewiring (2 rooms don't even have ceiling or wall lights at all!) and the gas central heating reinstalled. Partner also walked around and noted about 80% of the plaster has blown, so that will be fun when it's rewired! We've yet to do a survey, there is a long waiting time for a specialist in timber houses - my partner wanted to get an expert in. We offered 50k off the asking price, which was accepted to cover some of the work but they said they will not go any lower. So if the survey comes back with anything else major, we will walk away. The only reason we went for this house is because of the lovely garden, which backs onto fields as to be frank, the house is a bit of a nightmare in my view.

OP, if you are stretching yourselves to the point where you will have no savings, and can't afford to do the most minimal of maintenance - you cannot afford this property.

Buy something for max £600K and give yourself some peace of mind.

Given that the housing market is as dead as a door nail at the moment in your shoes id go back and state that given the results of the survey you are reducing your offer to £720k. Say you'll give them until noon on X date to consider your offer but this is your best & final offer & you will withdraw from the sale if its not accepted.

That assumes that you're prepared to lose the house.