Sellers won’t budge after survey price negotiation

[Montysmoon]

Hi everyone,

We had our offer of £735k accepted on a £750k house a month ago. The house was on the market a while - about six months and had no proceedable offers in that time (other buyer were needing to sell). It’s a probate.

While the house is old (100 years ish), no major alarm bells rang during our viewings.

But our homebuyer survey flagged urgent issues like gutters in disrepair that are causing damp throughout the property. The electrics are 40+ years old so the house will need rewiring, and the boiler is also old. There are other minor issues too like decaying woodwork etc.

We have asked the vendors to consider taking £10k off the sale price as this is what has been quoted to us for the repair work to the gutters and damp. This does not include anything for electrics or anything else.

Vendors are refusing to renegotiate price. I want to push back because we simply won’t have the money to do this repair work otherwise, plus they’re not exactly inundated with other offers so they’d be silly to risk losing us.

I’m also selling so I appreciate that it’s not always straightforward just lowering the price, but given the obvious defects in the house I think it’s a reasonable sum. Does anyone agree/disagree? Advice very welcome 🙏

depends if you are prepared to lose the house?

Depends really. Wasn’t it obvious that the house was in disrepair when you made the offer? Damp, old electrics and an old boiler don’t sound like issues which would have been a surprise.

To their mind it’s likely they think they have already reduced it by £15k so your repair works can come out of that buffer.

It's completely up to them what they do, whether you think they'd be daft to refuse your offer or not.

They may consider that the 15k theyve already taken off is sufficient. Or they may think you should have noticed older consumer units/switches suggesting older wiring, or the condition of gutters yourself. Who knows.

In terms of you wanting to "push back"... I'm curious about what you mean exactly?

Absolutely this I’m afraid OP

Presumably it was priced knowing this information and taking into account it needed modernisation - and you already have a discounted price. Bearing in mind it is probate and 100 years old, did you really think that the gutters, boiler and wiring were going to be recent? If I were the seller I would absolutely not consider any more reduction in the price.

As @Diplo said - I also don’t understand what you think you can push back on? You made an offer and they said no - they don’t want to reduce the price by £25k. What is there to push back on? Try and meet in the middle with a further £5k, what exactly?

Not really. The house is old but a lot of the big issues were not obvious during a 15 minute walk around the property, unless you’re good at spotting these things (I only know the electrics are 40 years old because I sent a picture of the fuse box to an electrician and he spotted one of the cables was white and this is apparently indicative of rewiring done in the 1980s.)

I mean to ask them again, telling them that we simply can’t afford these unforeseen costs and hope that this time they’re open to negotiating (wishful thinking probably)

How badly do you want the house? They’ve refused to amend the price, which is their right, so you pay it or lose the house.

You can’t force them to take another £10k off just because you think they’d be silly not to.

Your options are either pay the £735k or walk away. If you do walk away, they might suddenly have a change of heart and agree to the £10k offer.

I guess I’m banking on the fact that they were on the market for 6 months and so should be desperate to sell. But clearly they’re taking the risk

They may not need to move, or they may need to hit a certain figure for their onward purchase. No harm in asking, but ultimately you may lose the house.

You have had someone take a proper look at the electrics? A photo that’s “indicative” may not mean anything. We have a white wire on one fuse box and the house was completely rewired in 2014.

As an ornery if an old house they're not really major issues tbh and I wouldn't consider them bad enough to drop the price really do you might find they just sit tight

They might be calling your bluff if they think you are too keen on the house to talk away. If they saw you were serious about walking away they might be change their tune.

I also live in a house that’s 100 years old but it has been modernised, well maintained and has had new boiler, electrics etc all within the past 5 years. Just because the bones of a property are old, doesn’t mean the gutters should be defective and the electrics not changed for 45 years. A 100 year old property can still have a new boiler.

If you’re happy to walk away, go for it. Very different but I was queuing for a return at the theatre last week. Nice guy came out with a fantastic seat, including fizz and Icecream…. The face value was £150. I thanked him and said it was out of my league. I was hoping for a £20/30 ticket. He then came back and asked if I’d pay £50 which I was happy to.

Are you prepared to lose the house? In my case I’m so pleased I saw the play, but if the price had been 150 I’d have got the bus home.

I think we’re all alert to this now being a buyer game-play: try and reduce the price after the survey.

Unfortunately that means that vendors are prepared and dig their heels in even when there are genuine issues.

£10k on a £735k house doesn’t seem enough to torpedo the deal to me.

If you have done renovations, then surely you can spot that a property has not been renovated? Did you not ask about the boiler? Did you not ask to see the gas certificate for it? Did you not even see it? You can tell from light switches how old the electrics are. Sure, some people replace the light switches without upgrading the electrics. Is that what happened? Did you not ask when the electrics were last replaced? Seriously - I am astonished.

But you have no idea of their circumstances? Perhaps there’s more than one executor and they disagree among themselves about the price? Perhaps they are already very wealthy and it doesn’t matter to them when they receive the proceeds from the house sale? Perhaps they are just deluded about the value of the house and are ignoring the property market locally and advice from their estate agent?

you don’t have anything to push back on. You made an offer on the house which they accepted, you have now offered a lesser sum based on the results of the survey and they have turned it down. You can either walk away, pay the original price or hold tight and hope that they eventually agree to the reduction. Not much else you can do.

i’m a bit shocked though that you apparently did a 15 minute walk around of a property where you were planning on spending nearly three-quarters of a million pounds! Not noticing the problems with the gutters isn’t on the sellers, that’s on you. Also, presumably you must have known even from a visual inspection that the boiler, heating etc needed replacing. From knowing that specific property market, do you think the house was priced fairly allowing for those works? Presumably yes or you wouldn’t have offered close to the asking price. Suddenly trying to renegotiate because of a lot of work which should have been obvious from the start isn’t a very strong position to be in.

If they don't agree to drop the price yet again then you will have to walk away. Are you prepared to do that?

This doesn't necessarily mean you need a full rewire and all the expense and hassle that will entail. Our electrics were at least that old when we bought our house but we got an electrical report done and the condition of the wires themselves were actually fine, all it needed was a new fuse box.

None of us can help much really. If I were the seller I would negotiate but some people are stubborn and never will. If they’re stubborn ones you’ll need to decide if you proceed or not.

I don’t believe these are extra unexpected costs. If it’s a probate property it’s likely a home that the deceased person lived in for some time so it would be obvious there would be renovation costs to bring it to modern standards - including boiler and possible electrics. The guttering, if it is causing visible damp, would also be noticeable from a walk around - peeling bubbling paint or visible dark patches or wallpaper coming off the wall.

Anyway you’ve asked and they’ve said no. They are most likely not in a rush to sell and so will wait it out. If you think the house is too expensive now you will have to withdraw your offer. They’ve decided not to negotiate and I agree they already feel the 15 grand off will cover this.

We’ve just bought a house in a similiar situation . The survey too detailed more work than we thought so we asked for a reduction which they did . At the end of the day other buyers will likely ask for a further reduction too also building work is now so expensive . I would only stick with it if you can’t bare to lose but don’t over saddle yourself either as everything costs more than you think