Sellers won’t budge after survey price negotiation

[Montysmoon]

Hi everyone,

We had our offer of £735k accepted on a £750k house a month ago. The house was on the market a while - about six months and had no proceedable offers in that time (other buyer were needing to sell). It’s a probate.

While the house is old (100 years ish), no major alarm bells rang during our viewings.

But our homebuyer survey flagged urgent issues like gutters in disrepair that are causing damp throughout the property. The electrics are 40+ years old so the house will need rewiring, and the boiler is also old. There are other minor issues too like decaying woodwork etc.

We have asked the vendors to consider taking £10k off the sale price as this is what has been quoted to us for the repair work to the gutters and damp. This does not include anything for electrics or anything else.

Vendors are refusing to renegotiate price. I want to push back because we simply won’t have the money to do this repair work otherwise, plus they’re not exactly inundated with other offers so they’d be silly to risk losing us.

I’m also selling so I appreciate that it’s not always straightforward just lowering the price, but given the obvious defects in the house I think it’s a reasonable sum. Does anyone agree/disagree? Advice very welcome 🙏

When a house is valued it is done so based on the current state. It would be fairly normal to have to rewire an old house, replace boiler & gutters etc. They probably feel they've already lost £15k of the value so I would agree they shouldn't reduce it by a further £10k or I wouldn't do it if I was in their position. Ultimately it doesn't matter what anyone thinks - it's their house, so if you want it, buy it for £735k & if you can't afford it pull out & the right person will come along for them eventually.

Honestly OP, this £10k aside. Is this really the house for you? You’re stretching your budget to the maximum and spending all your savings for a house that likely needs a lot of work/modernisation even without all these issues found on the survey. How are you going to pay for all this? Have you already got money put aside for all this?

We bought a house that stretched our budget in a similar way. I regret it every day, we’re constantly finding things that aren’t how they should be and it’s been a struggle to find the spare cash to put them right. We’re thinking about selling and buying somewhere cheaper even if it’s to somewhere smaller.

The house will have been valued to take into account the fact that it needs work. They’ve reduced by £15k already. Lots of people, ESPECIALLY with a probate sale, will sit it out. The market isn’t strong atm, and unless they NEED to sell, many people will be happy to wait a while.
Has probate been granted? Have you sold? Are you prepared to lose the money you have already lost? Would you be prepared to meet in the middle. If you thought £10k was a realistic reduction to push for, you’d have been better suggesting £15k to start with.

Electric certificate normally part of sale paperwork so that will confirm the date but tbh a home buyer survey not much better than a walk around with a more experienced eye. Why didn't you pay for a proper one?
Also it's a bit entitled to think you can set the price and everyone has to fall into line.

If you won't have £10k to pay for repairs because this house is wiping out your savings and you're borrowing as much as possible, you're buying a house way beyond what you can actually afford. Council tax and bills will be high in a large old house. There will be constant repairs. Far better to find a cheaper house and not put yourself in such a risky, stressful financial situation. I'd pull out for that reason.

Wow that sounds expensive, £2.8k a month, what % of your income is that? If you have no buffer that could end up being really difficult unless you’re joint income is pretty hefty
as for the house, you’ve asked, they refused so you either suck it up or walk

It’s quite simple. If you can only afford to pay that price so you have money left over for the works needed then you make the offer and the explanation and walk away if they say no. Otherwise it really depends how much you want the house. You can only really play chicken with them if you are prepared to risk losing the house. My seller got in touch with me a year later and said they were willing to take an offer they had previously refused. I said it was no longer on the table and dropped it by another 5 k and walked away. 2 weeks late they accepted. But I was totally prepared to lose the house and they knew it.

What did the mortgage val
say? If they didn’t downvalue then there’s no reason the vendor should…

The seller don't have to reduce their price. If you can no longer afford it with the work walk away.

We bought our house at £210k over 10 years ago, when we bought the sellers were desperate to sell. We knew from initial booking that there would be £50k+ worth of work.

Survey came back saying house was unliveable - aka electrics were a risk of the house burning down, and also Ivy had broken the windows and was growing 5 meters into the house itself.

Damp was off the scale.

We still bought and took the hit, we really wanted the property and didn't want to risk losing it on the offer they accepted. 10 years on we are over £100k deep into renovating and STILL haven't finished.

This is the reality of buying your dream house if this is what it is. You have to look at the value of the house being renovated and see if the investment is worth it.

If this isn't your dream house, and there are others on the market - walk away. Like others have mentioned, the large price and not being able to afford £10k. Its more than like going to be a lot more in costs - is this really something you should be looking at? It might be worth looking at a new build or something more finished for yourselves.

That will only be the case if a notifiable work has been carried out since 2004 or if the property had been let, and presuming the paperwork has been kept - otherwise there normally won't be any electrical certificates on older houses.

If your offer of 165k less than the market rate for a similar local property, I’d say the price had been reduced already for quick sale/ condition? I would be unlikely to reduce my price further, having accepted your offer and the things you mention being visible on viewing. Absolutely no harm in asking though. It’s the sellers choice whether to negotiate.

A basic homebuyers survey is just that - eyes on the obvious things, on behalf of the mortgage company usually. There is usually a value confirmed by the survey for the benefit of the lender - what was the value?

Other than the homebuyers survey, have you sought any expert opinion about whether re-wiring is actually necessary or the extent of the gutter failure. It could be as simple as clearing debris, which at this time of year, could affect most unoccupied or unmaintained properties. What wood is showing decay? Structural timbers or just a few window frames that need their usual TLC?

A survey of an old house is always likely to bring up issues. Excessive damp readings are common, as if you are lucky enough that it hasn’t been renovated and ‘modernised’, solid lime plastered walls will often ‘read’ damp, even when they are functioning exactly as they should. If the damp was not visible, I fear your surveyor may have just stuck a damp prong meter in the wall and taken a high reading. A homebuyers survey will rarely look into the causes of damp and failing gutters may be your surveyors best guess, after his cursory inspection. You may need to examine the causes of damp more thoroughly. Do not ask a damp proofing company for a survey/opinion, as they are likely to want to sell you a completely inappropriate and harmful damp proofing remedy.

I think I agree with many other posters when I say if you are spooked by the survey results, you should walk away. There is no shame in this - that’s partly why you have the survey done - so they can spot things you haven’t.

As the house is 165k less than the market rate, I’m guessing you’ll need far more than 10k.

Good luck with however you decide to proceed. Even if the seller eventually accepts your reduced offer, you need to be realistic about the opportunity this property is offering.

My house has been on the market for about six months. The gutters need replacing and I have no central heating. The house is priced accordingly, to reflect this. I wouldn’t take an offer more than five grand below the price because that would mean I couldn’t buy somewhere else. Any viewer can see what needs doing.

Sadly, it doesn't sound as if potential sellers agree with your opinion that it is 'priced accordingly' and nor does the fact that you can't affford to buy somewhere else matter when it comes to 'market price'. Good luck selling it but 6 months on the market is already a long time.

i think you'd be pretty naive to believe that a 100 year old house wouldnt have some things that required updating! you got a pretty good discount already, i think if the sellers dont agree to drop the price further then thats entirely fair.

Haven’t read the whole thread but decide whether you want a 100 year old property or a mint condition one. You can’t have both unless you buy a place someone else has done a full recent renovation on and pay a premium for it. The house will have been priced for its condition already. If it was priced at post renovation price then deducting for work needed is fairer. Asking for a reduction on a figure that already has the condition factored in is asking for a double discount, and if I was your vendor I would think you were a CF.

I think if you can't afford £10k of repairs, you probably shouldn't buy a 100 year old house. They can be money pits!

£10,000 seems like a very small amount on a house that price. But, they probably priced it knowing it needed work, this happened to me and my sister. We knew it needed work so priced accordingly, accepted an offer and then the buyer couldn’t afford the work so pulled out of the sale. It seemed crazy to me that he didn’t expect that the property needed work and we were very upfront about it, he had already paid for surveys etc (as have you) we kept the property at the same price and someone else came along and bought it and it went through no problem. I can see it from both sides is what I’m saying I guess.

Can’t you just live it in and do those jobs as and when you can afford it ?

You can assume a 100 year old property isn’t going to be modern spec typically so it’s also on you to ask those questions. They’d have factored this into their pricing and already reduced from initial offer.

You can ask but then be prepared to walk if you’re not willing to go that price.

If this is true, you’ll make the money back. I’d just shut up and buy without the additional £10k off. Especially as once you’ve done it up, you could easily bump the value up.

We did exactly what you are doing and had the same thing happen. House was built in 1900 and the seller wouldn't negotiate at all given repairs / renovation identified in survey. We took the plunge.
Two things here: firstly, get quotes for all the required repairs. Double that amount, and you'll have a ballpark figure. An old house costs. One they start fixing it, something breaks / disintegrates / collapses in the process and the price goes up. Seriously, factor that in. Secondly, the world is full of houses for sale. If I could go back in time, we'd buy a different house!

No, your right its not 'stupid', its stupendously moronic.

No house ever comes without issues, maintenance, fees and hidden cost, if you don't have money for these issues you frankly cannot afford to own a house. Houses slip into uninhabitable so quickly, it can take just 1 bad season unmaintained.

Only a utter moron would spend to the absolute borrowing limit with no savings and zero wiggle room... OP is claiming they do not have 1% of the value spare for what is (very obvious common issues) without basically bankrupting themselves. They simply are admitting they cannot afford the up keep a £735,000 house.

Its recommended to have 4% the houses value in saving just for emergency issues, it can cost on average 1% a year for just basic yearly upkeep. On top of the OP is buying a old house that tip top of budget that has already been reduced to reflect needing work doing.

There's far more to owning a house than just the price you pay for it, its a constant ongoing bill.

Don’t be daft, plenty of people have said they’ve taken the risk and done the work slowly over time as savings have been replenished. That’s fairly normal- live in a tired ugly house and make it yours over time.

in terms of emergencies the contingency might simply be to take out a personal or family loan- people have more risky qns creative ideas than belt and braces 3 months in savings you know.

In 5 years OP could have an equivalent £900k house purchased for £735k. That’s why people take the risk on such matters.

Not everyone is as risk adverse as you, and that doesn’t make them a Moron (not a nice insult btw, inappropriate) - lots of people have made significant amounts of money from taking risks like this.

OP is paying £735k for a house on a street where she claims similar but more recently modernized houses sell for £900k... of course its a doer-up and priced as such.

They didn't just fancy giving away £165,000 for pure niceness.