council tax band G & H to double

[StrawberryThief1930]

has anyone seen the rumours that the council tax rates for bands G and H are going to double?

I know everything is just rumours at the moment but im worried this one might stick. easy to implement in an existing system and doesn't require the revaluation of thousands of houses etc.

I'm about to buy a G band house. Seriously questioning whether we can afford it. The current council tax is £4k a year. so £8k a year. Over £300 a month more than we had budgeted. we have spreadsheets coming out of our ears trying to check we can afford this house. Buying with a 40% deposit. im sweating...

anyone have the same worries? or further thoughts?

Bring back the Poll Tax.

@RosesAndHellebores

"The problem is ** that community charge/council tax, is a tax to purchase local services."

No, it's a property tax, calculated (very roughly) so that the payment due is somewhat proportional to the value of your home.

That being so, it should be no surprise that higher-value homes have a higher charge than lower-vslue homes.

We have an anomaly that it is currently designed to give the easiest ride to the very highest value homes.

The poll tax pretty much ended the career of the last great conviction politician the UK has had and ended up with major rioting in the centre of London and pitched battles between protestors and the police.

The idea it is going to come back under any government, let alone a Labour government is somewhat fanciful.

Agree. I think a little more critical thinking on what this tax pays for would go a long way to making it more understood, relevant and fare

I doubt Labour will have done that or any investigation into the effect of potential top heavy increases.
They haven’t in the past

@GasPanic ’The idea it is going to come back under any government, let alone a Labour government is somewhat fanciful.’

I agree somewhat fanciful. However the council tax is supposed to pay for council services, which are used by everyone. Therefore, ‘everyone’ should pay.
I like the concept.
Maybe moving council tax revenue into income tax would be fairer, and having a (low or fraction of a %) Land Value Tax on houses.

Having it as a % of income taxes is based on income though
What happens if there’s a recession, masses of redundancies etc. That would impact local councils income

I have to say I don’t know however if currently those out of work pay all, some or none of the ctax at the moment tho.

I think there are better ways than doubling it on say bands G+H, which just sounds like a soak the rich policy and sets up a cliff edge between F and G properties which will have ongoing effects in the property market.

A flat fee to be added to each band would be better for me, say £250 E, £500F, £1000G. Of course that sucks in more payers. There are probably about 5% of houses in G+H but a significant amount more if you add in E+F and so the popularity hit is larger for the government.

In needs doing though because council tax proportionately works very badly, especially compared with income tax, with higher bands proportionately paying much less than they should do. Maybe regressive is the word.

That's not how the tax system works though is it. Surely you know this? The people who earn more and can afford to pay more do so in a civilised society. That's been the case for a long time.

To take your 'I'm not minded to pay any more', try this example.
Why should I, on a six figure salary, with no health conditions nor DC with SEN or health conditions pay more than the person with cancer who needs more services and doesn't work or the person whose DC has severe MH problems and needs constant care and can't work. Why should I pay for people pensions or home care or disabled people's benefits? It doesn't work like that does it.

Instead of feeling resentful and stomping you feet, how about feeling grateful that you have lived in a country where you have been able to get a great job, live a very privileged life, acquire a beautiful home, that you have had the good enough health and drive and intelligence and good fortune to be able to earn an excellent salary. Why feel resentful about people who are so much less fortunate?

The majority do pay, just in a proportion to the value of their property (at least approximately).
A LVT would indeed be much fairer. The needs of councils are so variable and many are bankrupt nowadays.

I do know that and have no objection to paying more for those genuinely in need. I have significant issue with contributing towards uc for people who decline to work for more than 16 hours pw. Some of that may be structural because of the ryles, but the rules need to change.

If some people have to pay high marginal rates, that's fine providing nobody in this country who can work, is avle to decline to work.

Also, the vinnies rwmoving my rubbish don't get paid more to do so than rwmoving the rubbish from a property housong far more people.

The council tax system is based on 1991 property valuations decided on by nothing more than a ‘drive by’. There are several houses in our village currently for sale in Band G. One at £795,000, one at £1,650,000 and one at £2,950,000 all paying the same council tax. Is this really a fair system?

Round my way it doesn't get anywhere close to approximate.

A band C house at 200K will not pay 5x less CT than a band H at £1mill, the factor is more like 2.5x and that of course is capped at band H.

No which is why they are proposing putting in more discrimination at the higher band.

The owner of a hundred-million pound house is treated even more generously.

No wonder they don't want to see extra bands being added.

I completely agree with you and have said so repeatedly throughout the thread.
I think we need up to date, fair values. Any changes should get introduced immediately, not at the point of sale as that would just gum up the market even more.

I agree with your first couple of paragraphs.
'The system' is a problem in pretty much every regard, not just the benefits system, which disincentivises work and turns people into dependents, further depressing their mood and worsening their prospects. I would argue that the tax system and the marginal rates do the same thing in terms of acting as a major disincentive so are also very foolish.

I think you have answered the question already!

That being so, it should be no surprise that higher-value homes have a higher charge than lower-vslue homes

That is only really true at a local level.

This house in South Shields is in band E house and on the market for £350,000.

https://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/71674077/?search_identifier=66fe6c27f12548b293895a3a832ee10436335e589c5b0d2c653fe65e6a6cdb5d&console=open&tab=map

This house in the City of Westminster is in band E and on the market for £1,300,000

https://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/71789494/?search_identifier=8150c03ebad9e6f6a43534145d625fec8c89878f3e4876a6aba6df208ec239ce&weekly_featured=1&utm_content=featured_listing

The annual council tax due on the South Shields property is double that due on the London property.

In order to be fair, any extra tax based on council tax band will need to be regionally adjusted to reflect the actual value of the property.

@Elbowpatch ’In order to be fair, any extra tax based on council tax band will need to be regionally adjusted to reflect the actual value of the property.’

Which is unfair in itself. Many houses mortgaged in the SE may have a book value of say £500k, but a mortgage of say £350k, with the owners just keeping their head above water. An expensive house doesn’t mean higher disposable income.
Also, council costs may be more in one area than another, independent of house prices. South Shields may need to pull in £1k per address, whereas Westminster may be able to do it for £800 per address.
I gave no answers, but making everyone inside the M25 pay 3x everyone in Northumbria isn’t fair either.
As I said before, move (most of) CT into income tax and levy some tax against all properties. Let councils levy charges against the value of a property payable on change of title if someone is cashflow poor.
No need for anyone to go without.

In income tax someone on about £40K pays about 10x less tax than someone on £200K ?

So if you assume a £40K salaried person is in a band C house and a £200K in a band G then round my way you would have to uprate the CT to about 20K for the band G (2K for band C) to make it proportionally equivalent to income tax whereas it is current at about 4.5K for band G.

A re banding when extensions go on is long overdue

( including developer type cgtax for those extensions at point of sale but that’s another thread entirely 🤣)

Calculations posted on another thread just for info

We can’t make assumptions on salaries. It assumes everyone bought recently.

We could I surpose use people’s salaries as a marker for payment with this method. Again it’s an alternative method of calculation and a little like the one posted upthread connected to income tax

We’ve recently moved into our band G house. It’s worth £690k in the South East, so only slightly above average albeit a big stretch for us. We work in the public sector and finally have our non-flashy dream home - 4 bedroom for 3 kids + parents.

If council tax doubles for us, we’ll be forced to sell and make a loss, probably to move back to a 3 bed and kids share or a cheaper location. It’s not fair to expect people to find £££ on top of increased interest rates.

If the government are going to make a change, do it to people to have a choice (eg via stamp duty, people can delay moving if need be). Don’t do it to people who have families, who need to stay where they are. They need to be taxing the super rich by creating higher tax bands, not us normal folk who are already pushed to our limits.

Sadly aspiration and hard work are to be punished under Labour.

We’re in a very similar situation.
We moved into our Band G house 18 months ago. We paid £495k. We’re in the north of England.
It’s lovely and in a great location but it’s a fairly standard family home. And that exactly why we bought it, it’s a family home near schools and commuting distance to work.
We’re not super high earners ( both work at a university) but we’ve saved and saved for this house.
Despite what some people on this thread have suggested we’re not millionaires and we don’t live in a mansion.