council tax band G & H to double

[StrawberryThief1930]

has anyone seen the rumours that the council tax rates for bands G and H are going to double?

I know everything is just rumours at the moment but im worried this one might stick. easy to implement in an existing system and doesn't require the revaluation of thousands of houses etc.

I'm about to buy a G band house. Seriously questioning whether we can afford it. The current council tax is £4k a year. so £8k a year. Over £300 a month more than we had budgeted. we have spreadsheets coming out of our ears trying to check we can afford this house. Buying with a 40% deposit. im sweating...

anyone have the same worries? or further thoughts?

"2% of pensioners have private pension wealth of over £1million. All of which is being taxed ££ as they take it out"

Apart from the 25% of it that is Tax free cash, of course. Up to a limit that is usually £268,275
Even though it was untaxed when it went in.

Quite generous, isn't it.

Not to mention that more prosperous people often get a 40% tax rebate on what they put in

And are often charged only 20% tax on what they take out, as earnings while working are usually greater than pension when retired.

What does that have to do with Council Tax?

I should have stressed
pensioners pay the same income tax as everyone else.

The only exemption atm is ni.
I can’t imagine with the level of delusional envy in this country that they'll be exempt for that for much longer.

I’m guessing people will still want to take more of other peoples money and especially from those who have done nothing wrong but get older and stay alive

It’s shameful

Suppose this is how true communist regimes started. Inch by inch, slowly at first until such theft was seen as normal, even desirable by the newly brainwashed.

Well that very vocal poster earlier in the thread, who fancies herself a French revolutionary didn't seem to like Democracy. She seemed to want a different system of government.

Yes disgusting

Why aren't benefits taxed when they are often more than state pension and state pension will be taxed? Why are people on benefits getting more and more whilst the rest of us are being bled dry?

Agree band H isn’t fit for use

but you conveniently changed the conversation away from the bizarre 10x
tax increase you suggested.

Ignoring others reasonable comments
You diverted and ignored.

scarey !

and before you know it
we’ll be asking permission to have babies.
Our working future decided for us.
Holidays and luxuries not allowed unless everyone can have the same.
It’s a slow burn to complete loss of autonomy.

So pensioners do pay less tax than younger people for no reason at all.
It's so easy to gaslight people and accuse them of envy. It's not envy. It's fairness and logic given that circumstances are very different now. There is no reason for pensioners to get a special, protected, lower rate of tax.

Which people 'want to take more of other people's money'? Do you mean the ones who are currently working hard and funding the pensioners and the services that they use more of than any other group? It seems to be the other way around after all.

Why do some people always have to create a pensioner sob story? I bet they are the nastiest to the disabled who are claiming benefits and to families living in poverty. If this changes does come into effect, it will be much harder for those who have bought recently and have a huge mortgage on the property, and other high costs such as childcare to pay, not those with an expensive asset.

Are you able to articulate what exactly is 'disgusting'?

That's the current system, which massively disadvantages all those who live in the regions and massively advantages those in London and SE. That's clearly unfair too. Funny how no one complains about current unfairness isn't it (not just referring to this).

It does indeed favour the most wealthy now. It may not have been the case back in 1991 but it is now.
I get the impression that all the people complaining bitterly about this don't care that it is unfair to many people as long as it suits them.

This is true and is one concern about the property. However, the current system is unfair to others, chiefly the less well off, those living far outside the capital and some people with newer homes.

As you know I’m sure

They don’t pay national Insurance because that is how the current system was set up

You pay a certain number of years you get a full pension. less years = less pension but after pension age you don’t have to pay into a system you’ve paid into
The same in a way ( in terms of payments anyway ) as private pensions. You don’t keep paying in after payments start

That is how the system was set up

Now the country is on its knees I wouldn’t be surprised if ni will be hit
just like I wouldn’t be surprised if UC and PIP are hit.
Or anything and everything…..

i here milkshakes are taking a hit now
I here grants for heat pumps are being dumped

Not all taxes have positive outcomes as we have and will continue to see I’m sure

Which people you ask….i don’t know who they are or what life they lead but they do moan a lot about wanting more of other people’s money.

I didn’t have a pensioner sob story…..i stated stats on income and assets

I’m also not a pensioner. I’m just not ageist and I don’t live a life of envy. It’s a happier place to be I think

Why is the current system unfair on people living outside of the capital?

I agree with the increase in council tax in recent years it is increasingly less progressive. Albeit - income tax on lower earners is comparatively low and increase have largely landed on the ‘squeezed middle’ and above for many years.

That's called the poll tax. It was binned decades ago because it was regressive and penalised the poor. I'm pretty sure this has already been mentioned.

"pensioners pay the same income tax as everyone else."

Everyone else doesn't get a 25% tax free cash allowance.

Yes I do know that.
Presumably you know that times change and things change, including taxes.
As you say, the country is 'on its knees' and pensioners, being the wealthiest group in the population, should expect to pay their share, or something a tiny bit approaching their share.
I think that the economy has deteriorated too much over the past few decades, and more rapidly in the past 5 years for any tax rises/cuts or financial shenanigans to make a significant difference now. That doesn't mean that some would be better than others but I don't think anyone can expect to stop a crisis and decline.

It isn’t. It’s based on the value in 1991 (or the assumed value for properties newer than that). This doesn’t vary by region - a property deemed to be worth £70k in 1991 will be a band D anywhere in the country.

I’d bet there are far more band A properties outside London and the SE than in that area.

Because those in much less valuable properties often pay more than those in properties worth many multiples in London.
I agree that income tax on lower earners is comparatively low and that the 'squeezed middle' and those at tax boundaries have been hammered. Unfortunately, the poor don't seem to be able to afford more. Many are already being topped up by those of us who do pay a lot of tax.

Why should people in London pay vastly more council tax than people in cheaper parts of the country?

They already pay more for their housing - why should they be penalised yet again through the council tax system?

This is a great idea

Exactly and do you know what has changed since 1991, nearly 35 years ago?
The value of properties in London and the SE particularly, and some other cities has shot up so now the bands are ridiculously out of date. There is no justification for keeping bands that are 35 years out of date.
Would you expect to use a 1991 when calculating your salary? Your divorce settlement? Obviously not.

The main argument would be that many of them are wealthier, due to owning a very expensive asset. You can certainly argue that they are penalised by having to pay more for housing, although this obviously doesn't apply to all, because some bought decades ago. Londoners also have many advantages though such as higher salaries, a public transport system that works, better schools, better educational results and many other things too.
I agree that it is unfair to those who have taken on huge debt recently, having made their calculations but the current system is also clearly unfair to others...

Not everyone
You need a pension pot that makes that’s worthwhile first and a lot of pensioners today didn’t have the benefit of employer contributions. Only younger people have that as it was only introduced in 2018!!!!!

Self employed for example pay a far lower rate if national insurance
Part time earners don’t have to pay income tax or national insurance ( under 12570)
People avoid tax using ISAs

shall I go on

There are mechanisms in the system to encourage people to save, to now encourage people to pay into a private pension

Shall we go on and talk about free childcare and other benefits that weren’t around 60 years ago to now pensioners

Blaming one age group is pathetic when clearly there is no real understanding stepping back in time of what was available then.

This is the problem at the moment in this country with too many people listening to unverified information. Or perhaps just envious of granny affording a Costa .
Someone has to be blamed and it’s the vulnerable and old that are an easy target.

Nothing more to say
Ive proved the worth of a per head system.
I’ve identified how it will help families and single parents ( checked in other areas too)

This thread is about council tax.
Not a bashing thread for those who envy the elderly.
That solves nothing