Help! We naively didn’t know we needed building control approval for rsj.

[hollyblueivy]

We knocked a wall out using a building firm and they did some other work for us at the same time. They were originally going to use a concrete beam but later said we need a steel rsj. They did the work. We paid them. This was several years ago and the company is no longer running.

we didn’t know and they didn’t tell us that we needed building control sign off for the rsj.

We are thinking about selling and now are not sure what our options are and if this is going to stop us selling the house.

Has anyone for any experience of this?

Your solicitor can arrange indemnity insurance for things like this if you sell. We had to do it last time we sold when we couldn't find certificates for new windows and fire we'd had fitted. It was about £200 from memory.

Don't ring the council.

Just pay for an indemnity policy. Assuming your buyer and their lender will accept a policy it's the cheapest way.

Just apply for retrospective building control approval. It’s really straightforward and less likely to put off any potential buyer.

Indemnity is the cheapest and simplest way.
You can get retrospective building regulations approval, but that would involve proving that the installation complies with the regulations. That might involve uncovering some or all of the RSJ as well as paying for calculations to prove the size of the steel plus the building regs fees. Even more tricky if the original builder is no longer trading since you'd have to find someone prepared to do the work and they'd likely charge a premium rate for essentially underwriting someone else's job.

I am tempted by the indemnity option. Sounds cheaper at least. But what if it’s not accepted in the middle of trying to sell and buy?

Also your mention of windows reminds we that we have replaced windows and doors but never received any certificates. The company is still going. Do I just ask them? If they cannot provide they is that another indemnity policy?

Bear in mind that not all mortgage lenders will just accept indemnity insurance for every issue. And from bitter experience- if they're FTB they may not want to accept insurance just because they're a bit jumpy! So it really will depend on your specific buyer.

If you can get the approval retrospectively that will be more robust, but as OP says that comes with its own issues.

I would ask the company for certificates for windows and doors in the first instance.

@hollyblueivy Your builder knew though! You have no idea if this rsj is safely fitted snd will do the job it’s meant to be doing. If it’s not embedded correctly and not the right size, it’s not fit for purpose. What calcs did the unqualified builder do? Back of a fag packet ones? Your builder was a cowboy. I’m assuming he’s still on the planet! Track him down. I would want more than a worthless indemnity policy as a buyer.

I wouldn't accept an indemnity policy for this. There is a reason it needs building control approval and I wouldn't be happy about the quality of the work from someone who didn't get it signed off. What even is the indemnity policy insuring you for? It won't cover the cost of replacing the beam and repairs if it hasn't been installed correctly.

As a buyer i would want approval. Need to know it s been done ok.

UMMMM do you always need this? I have replaced the angle of a staircase using a steel beam, about 20 years ago... don't think I got a certificate although a structural engineer signed it off and did the calculations.

I would be worried both the steel not being big enough to support the weight. Did you have calculations done by a structural engineer even ? Did the builder just estimate ?

BR are there to keep you safe!

Did you tell your insurers about the works as if there are cracks you might be uninsured. It’s quite something to have a steel as it’s supporting the upstairs of your house.

i have pulled out of buying a house just because I have seen a tiny crack by a steel. ( on the advice of a chartered surveyor friend).

Oh no I feel doomed. It was over 8 years ago. I realise if there’s an issue with it, it will need to be fixed but it may involve pulling down a lot of work.

Looks like the company was dissolved in 2021. Possibly a victim of Covid or possibly a cowboy builder.

We had a similar issue. We naively didn’t really we needed buildings control approval and when we asked (as the work was finishing), our builder said: ‘I didn’t realise you wanted to do everything by the book’. I could have lamped him. Anyway, we applied to the council for retrospective planning permission. The man from the council popped over, said he couldn’t see how the work had been done (the padstones etc), charged us £700 but warned us that it didn’t actually mean we had full planning permission for it. We sold the house about 4 years later. I don’t remember it being an issue. Good luck .

You can check for the windows and doors certs on the Fensa site.

forms.fensa.org.uk/fensa-certificate

@Holdonforsummer There are frequently no piers supporting a beam to see if a wall is deep anough to support the beam. No one knows if it’s embedded correctly into a wall if it’s been enclosed and plastered over. That’s why calcs and BR approval is needed. This detail is checked and ensures the length and size of beam is correct and piers are provided if needed, eg for a single brick wall. The idea that pad stones (?) means a beam is embedded to stop twisting in a fire is somewhat odd. The beam must deflect the weight of the upper floor, via the walls, to the foundations. The key structural part being via the walls. This means the beam must be in the walls at each end, not floating on a “padstone”.

A padstone's job is to distribute e weight over the masonry it rests on. I dont know wst you mean by, floating? How can a block 'float'?

As a buyer, I wouldn’t accept an indemnity on something like this. It’s key to structural integrity. An indemnity is fine for something really historical which was done before modern regs and getting BC sign off was required, but I’d have concerns about what other corners may have been cut if a modern RSJ hadn’t been properly specced and signed off.

It won’t necessarily be an arduous process assuming it was specced correctly, and it’s far better to get it done now than risk a sale falling through when it gets picked up and the buyer decides they won’t accept an indemnity.

Obviously I don’t know all the structural details! I’m just telling the OP that we had a similar issue, that retrospective planning permission was expensive and seemed to be useless but that we didn’t have any problems selling the house!