Wear and tear…..

[Trinner]

We have a property that we have let to a couple for 9 years. They are moving out shortly and have said that all of the crockery and glasses are broken, they replaced the mattress and sofas (there was nothing wrong with either they were brand new and very good quality when they moved in) - they have also broken 2 dining chairs.

They are saying this is wear and tear and have no plans to replace any of it.

What are your thoughts?

9 years is a long time. I’m not a landlord but if I were I would be expecting to have to completely redecorate and refurnish a rental property after a 9 year tenancy tbh.

What does your deposit protection scheme say about it?

It will come under wear and tear. Check guidelines with your deposit protection scheme but I think you'll find 9 years is beyond the expected lifespan for those items so you wouldn't be able to claim from their deposit.

I wouldn't be worried about broken dining chairs or a few pots over 9 years. I’d be upset the original furniture was no longer there and I’d be withholding the deposit, or part of it.

We don’t plan to re-let it … it’s a holiday home abroad and we want to use it now whilst selling it. I don’t mind about the mattress as happier to buy our own - but buying two new sofas etc is really inconvenient - they never informed us that they had disposed of them - they were expensive sofas from John Lewis so I would have expected them to be still going with only the couple in the house (no children)

I would charge them a full refurb as well as new deVOL kitchen. Will teach them right for causing wear in their rented flat.

9 years of rent paid on time and the only thing they've damaged is crockery and a couple of dining chairs? Plus they bought their own mattress and sofas?

Full deposit return and a decent bottle of wine with best onwards wishes from me.

They’ve paid your mortgage for nine years, and you’re worried about some broken Crockery and a couple of broken chairs?

9 years use is pretty good even for a quality sofa.

It's not clear they have replaced or not from what you say.

And if they have why would you need to buy new ones if you are selling it anyway ?

If it's in the inventory & let as furnished they'll need to pay up or leave their sofas?

IANAL but strongly suggest you get legal or accounting advice in the country where your property is located as that will be the valid contract conditions, not what you might think or wish is right or wrong in the UK.

They had no right to dispose of your furniture without your consent.
Take legal advice.

That's wear & tear. Be thankful you have had an honest and transparent in place for NINE years. Don't fall out over it, why cause you and them unnecessary bad feeling from something so good? You won't win if you argue it.

As for the mattress & sofas, not sure why they would replace them but your point about quality is partly irrelevant. A mattress has a 7 year life time, certainly no more than 10 years, so if it's nine years old what are you worried about?!

I'm slightly outraged you are even asking these questions. Such a lack of appreciation and respect for your tenants.

I'm slightly outraged you are even asking these questions

I’m sorry you are upset - honestly don’t let it get to you.

I think it’s fine on a talk board to ask for others thoughts.

It’s in France so personally not clear at this moment what the current rental legislation is and if our contract from 9 years ago is still valid if legislation has changed.

My initial thoughts were around an inventory for check in and check out and interested in what’s considered wear and tear - so this discussion and your thoughts have been helpful. We plan to sel but will use it ourselves until then - it would have been helpful to have a sofa to use in the interim.

Personally, I think crockery and the two chairs is reasonable wear and tear, but I’m quite shocked that they have disposed of sofas without informing you. Fair enough if they’d informed the agent they weren’t needed as they had/wanted to buy their own, or even if they informed you the springs had broken and they would replace them with ones they’d own and take with them. But I don’t think disposing of furniture which is not yours is OK and I’d expect to get more than 9 years wear out of a sofa!

But others are right that you should check the legal position in France.

There are understandings with the DBS as to how much you can charge based upon the age of the item. After 9 years I doubt you could get anything back for the sofas,

Former Landlady here. If they've paid the rent in full during their tenancy I would let this go. What use are nine year old sofas and nine year old matresses to anybody ? All of which would now be secondhand.
I would be thankful the Tenants paid the rent, didn't trash the place or strip it completely.
I would be very keen to ensure the property has a descent security system, as an empty property could be vulnerable to squatters.

Another ex landlord here....i might ask about the sofas but the other stuff i would forget about.

I didn’t know Crockery and glasses would be included but after that long I would expect a full repaint to be able to let. All your listed items would need replacing after 9 years if you were to re-let. If you are selling you would have to remove the items. It would be nice to use while you’re using it but it’s a nice to have and I’ll assume they were good tenants so I’d just leave it as long as there are no holes in the walls.

All the things you mentioned are wear and tear. Even while renting I have experienced the same after even two or three years. 9 years is a very long time - Def wear and tear.

They could go to the deposit scheme and you would get nothing for them. Carpets for example should be replaced every 5 to 7 years. If you have replaced these no matter how damaged they are you won’t get any deposit back for them. A 9 year old sofa? What value do you think it has? You normally would have to pay someone to take it away.

Do people really only have sofas for 9 years? Ours are over 20 and fine!

I used to do check in/out inventories for a blue chip firm. It was standard to have a 6 year life cycle on soft furnishings such as mattresses, upholstered chairs etc., and 9 years on hard furniture such as dining tables. Any damage beyond normal wear and tear was charged at a depreciated value of the life cycle. I think they should have definitely informed you if they disposed of any furniture, but its up to you regarding return of deposit depending on what's in the contract.

If it was the UK it would be wear and tear and the tenancy deposit scheme would not look favourably on a landlord claiming for some broken crockery and chairs after 9 years . Not really much point asking on a British forum but I believe the law in France is very much protective of tenants.

I'm a tenant but the property is unfurnished and in the UK. But... if I were a tenant in France of a fully furnished property, I would not bother the landlord over broken crockery or new mattress. I would bother the landlord over replacing the sofa(s). But I would also suggest that if the original sofas were damaged in any way, the tenant has done good to replace them. I understand that in France, tenants have much more leeway in terms of being able to use the property as their home and decorate or remove furniture as preferred. But it probably rests on what kind of contract you had in place.

I do have to ask whether you visited the property at all in 9 years and if not, why not? Did you have good communication with your tenants so that this lack of discussion is out of character? Or was this all facilitated via a local agent?

I'd also suggest to landlords that if there is something personal, precious or otherwise sentimental in the property you are letting you should if possible remove it. Tenants will not have the same attachment to the item but if damaged they are only obliged to replace like with like which may not be the exact same at all.