Does anyone actually know what the property tax is rumoured to be?

[kirinm]

I’ve read a few bits and pieces and all I’ve gathered so far is they may get rid of stamp duty (a good thing for me personally) but then bring in other taxes which might include a general property tax and / or capital gains?

For buyers, surely the change is a positive one unless I’m missing something?

(Stamp duty on our current purchase is nearly £60k so if we somehow manage to avoid it, that would be brilliant).

You are correct that there has, historically, been a huge amount of bribes thrown at older generations as they are a large group and tend to vote in elections.
However, three points
a) Labour were never going to stay in office for more than one term.
b) Older people are less likely to vote for Labour.
c) Politicians, particularly the Tories, have made a major mistake constantly focussing constantly on the older and penalising the younger voters. The older generations will gradually die over the next couple of decades. I don't think the younger voters, who will still be alive are unlikely to forgive past mistakes.

The ‘super wealthy’ is a very subjective term!

99% of wealthy people think it starts a bit above their own wealth level. For those worth a few hundred thousand, maybe 2 million. For those worth 2 million, maybe 5 million. And for those worth 5 million, maybe 10 million etc.

And of course, for those living month to month, even one million is an unimaginable amount of wealth.

Fairness means making a simple tax system, where wealth is equated to income. So, just paying CGT at your top rate of income tax is demonstrably fair, so you would have no preference between income and capital gains.

But, again, fairness also dictates that capital gains should only be paid on real gains, so we need to bring back indexation.

On that basis, CGT is probably fairer than a wealth tax per se, but it assumes that people will be sensible and save to pay it annually.

I imagine reform know that they need the support of the people who actually vote. Same as all political parties. And yes people die, but then the next generation replaces them. Why would they want to have their wealth taxed either?

I imagine reform know that they need the support of the people who actually vote. Same as all political parties. And yes people die, but then the next generation replaces them. Why would they want to have their wealth taxed either?

Reform would probably benefit me as I think they want to scrap IHT. But I would rather functioning public services.

99% of wealthy people think it starts a bit above their own wealth level

This

Definitely!

I wonder which voters they are appealing to with that policy 😂

Reform is not in power currently so are not relevant. Labour are in power until 2029 unless something extremely unusual happens.
The point I was trying to make in my earlier posts is that the younger generations have been disadvantaged by the policy of much higher taxes on wealth than on property. In fact, those who have gained 6 or even 7 figures in wealth have not been taxed at all on primary residences. Younger people have far less wealth than the older generations for the reasons already given. Most of them also have little hope of acquiring it and would like a change in policy to one that does not discriminate against them as much as the current ones do.

Reform is not in power and can therefore say whatever they want to attract attention and popularity. It's much harder to actually have to make decisions, difficult decisions than to talk a lot.

@rainingsnoring I don't disagree with you but they have gained popularity because they are spouting bullshit that people want to hear.

I’m not disagreeing with anything you’ve said about the disproportionate burden to young people (student loans, nursery fees and stamp duty etc). However it’s not that simple is it. Political parties need to win the election and to do that they need to appeal to the majority of (actual) voters. And even labour won't want to piss off people too much despite another 3.5 years in their term. They know it will be an uphill battle to win next election and they will be judged on their policies and whether people (who vote) feel richer or poorer

I don’t understand those talking about an annual property tax. You can only tax on realisation of a gain i.e. when sold. I assume this would be waived on inherited properties as inheritance tax would already be due.
The housing market would adjust so anyone buying and selling would not be any worse off.

Proposed changes will cause a slowing market to grind to an abrupt stop. it won't raise more money. When they use the term wealthy they now seem to include anyone owning a basic property and earning just above minimum wage threshold.

Why is generation Z so anti boomers and their properties. After all they will inherit them one day. Or are they intending to give them away as a matter of principle?

Why is generation Z so anti boomers and their properties. After all they will inherit them one day.

not everyone will inherit much. Plus it's far better to have a functioning economy and decent salaries then to rely on an inheritance in your 60s as a way to improve your lot in life.

Nothing happens now because principal residences are exempt from CGT so nobody has known that they had to keep all of the evidence.

CGT on principal dwellings simply can't work retrospectively. The only option would be to introduce an annual property tax and CGT for new purchases only since existing home owners have already paid the stamp duty it is supposed to replace and haven't kept records regarding property improvements. They would also have to factor in inflation and since most properties haven't increased in value that much when you factor in inflation the policy wouldn't make as much as people think. Inflation over the past few decades is incredibly high.

If they introduce CGT retrospectively it will mean that people like us in their mid fifties who had planned to downsize will just stay put since cgt gains disappear on death.

I agree - absolute SHAME on the Labour MPs who blocked Rach from doing her welfare reform.

one of them is my local MP - never voting for him again

It’s income vs capital that is taxed disproportionately and this entrenches wealth in the same hands and creates generational wealth.

If you are earning £250k per annum, the top slice of your income is taxed at 45%. If you make £250k of capital gains you are taxed at 28% if it is property, 18% on shares and 0% if it is your primary residence.

So how can the next generation hope to ever catch up, other than through a few rarefied jobs and, especially, inheritance.

I bought my house in 2009 for £750,000. If I sold it this year without spending a penny on it other than to maintain it in its exact same condition it is now worth
£1,285,655.50 purely due to inflation. This isn't a gain. It's an inflationary increase. Every other property has also increased to the same extent and so I now have to spend £1,285,655.50 to buy an identical house. I have made nothing. Its illusory.

But the politics of envy means there are people screeching about how I've made half a million pounds. I haven't.

@user760 sorry I thought it was obvious that I meant what happens now when people sell other properties & pay CGT.

This calculator shows your house value adjusted for inflation

Many properties in the UK have actually lost value in real terms

https://www.in2013dollars.com/uk/inflation/2009?amount=750000]]

When people own second properties they know that CGT is going to be payable and so they keep careful records and evidence.

This can't be done retrospectively.

Every other property has also increased to the same extent and so I now have to spend £1,285,655.50 to buy an identical house. I have made nothing. Its illusory.

But every single property doesn't increase to the same extent....

@user760 do they?

Many properties in the UK have actually lost value in real terms

Exactly so your house has bucked the trend