Think we've been scammed on our windows - should we seek legal advice

[Mustardmummy25]

Looking for advice really.

We're doing a long-saved-up for reno replacing the back windows and patio doors downstairs.

These are bespoke low-profile alu frame

Our builder chose and recommended the company - and both DH and I independently were convinced he told us he had used this company previously

I visited Instagram prior to builder ordering, couldn't find the Facebook, and whilst the window business didn't post often, that and the website looked okay, yes, I know we were somewhat naive, and I know if we had ordered them directly, we would have dug further.

We ordered these in February paying our builder who then bought them from the window company and are still waiting over 6 months later, we were told 8-10 weeks. Everything was timed around this and the works were prepared and this is where we have been left since May, with a half-finished reno.

Window business owner has given the builder the complete run around since May.....playbook is, excuse re materials, goes awol, turns back up, problem is now sorted, once we ran to the end of those excuses regarding various material and components, it was yes everything in progress now and hoping to have a on lorry wc xx of xx. Week xx comes and goes, he goes AWOL for a couple of weeks then pops back up. The same thing is promised; we are now on round 3 of this happening. Looks like it's a one-man band kind of set up.

With winter approaching, we are getting desperate, and the builder has admitted to us in a round about way that he is also.

I know our contract is with the builder - that's right, isn't?

This weekend DH and I have done a deep dive and feel pretty sick, it appears the window business owner was running an okay outfit (found the Trustpilot page, a little hidden, but it is them) but then it goes downhill. Feel sick. all the red flags are there.

Like I said we both were under the impression builder had used this company before, otherwise we would have done a deeper dive ourselves. He did tell us this and i am working my way through messages as I am sure this is written down somewhere - turns out he's never used them before, but he said Friday there were no red flags on ordering, very knowledgeable asked all the right questions etc.

All the TP reviews in 2023 and 2024 have the same playbook as what we're experiencing; incidentally, all were refunded either by credit card chargeback or he's agreed to some kind of repayment plan. Window company never made any attempt to just deliver these customers' windows just gave them their money back.

I don't think it is a total scam operation. I think 2017-2022 he has been delivering windows (also found the facebook page now and this also supports this) but it looks like something has gone wrong 2023-2024.

There were also big gaps on the socials in this time, which in isolation, isn't all that out of the ordinary for small businesses. But the frequency and professionalism of the instagram post does increase from around April this year. However, there are no more reviews, good or bad, since Autumn 20224.

From here I want to cut our losses, but am worried the builder wont want to until he has his money back, which could take months or years if he didn't use a credit card. Obviously, we just want some windows!!

We like our builder; he's local and pretty straight down the middle.

Your builder has to give you your money back if you have evidence of the cost and your payment. But I doubt he will want to. Did you pay him in cash?

I'm renovating at the moment and it's miserable. Everything is so expensive and it's taking ages.

@user1471538283 oh yes all above board and we have invoices, it was a Bank transfer.

Completely hellish.

I dont beleive yoyr builder would have paid upfront for windows. Has he given you evidence of payment and what is he proposing?

What does your contract with your builder say?

Why did you give the builder the money rather than buying the windows yourselves? Who knows what the truth is here. Your builder might have spent your money and not even paid the window guy. Have you even seen proof of his payment?

Letter before action and then take him to a small claims court. You are now beyond the point on trusting him so he needs to repay you within the deadline you set out in your letter or you will begin court proceedings.

Do not contact the window company because that might complicate things. Your agreement is with your builder.

@clarrylove we investigated all that as a possibility a couple of months ago, I saw the invoice back in Feb from the window company to the builder and after doing some digging on that side we are satisfied that money has changed hands and the windows have been ordered.

We have seen chasing email correspondence between builder and window company in the past month, builder has started bcc'ing me and I have spoken to the window company myself, albeit very briefly, around 8 weeks ago, and whilst he couldn't get me off the phone quick enough they knew about the order, the specifics of our location etc. without prompting, so whilst I don't know if the builder has paid in full they have definitely been ordered and some money has changed hands, there was no indication of fraud on the builders part.

@clarrylove there was some indication....as with other things that if he ordered we would get trade prices.

@SeagullSam2027 they are to supply and fit the windows and address any remedial work.

Check your home and car insurance to see if they include legal expenses cover that covers consumer issues.

@Mustardmummy25 You need to ask your builder to source an alternative supplier, or find one yourself. The money you paid for the windows should be offset from the final balance. Presumably you haven’t paid your builder for all the works up front? It sucks for him, but he’s the one who has the contract with the supplier so it’s his job to recover his money from them.

I find it strange that your builder would recommend a company he has no knowledge of and agree to be the one who contracts them. Surely he would just advise you to purchase the windows directly from the company? Or use a company he usually works with?

@confusedlots I'm not sure what you're saying but this is what has happened, as we believe it to be. Yes we find bananas also but as I said we both independently thought he had told us this was someone he had used before.

I don't think he'd ever down the low profile sliders which is why he didn't have someone to hand as it is quite bespoke but not uncommon iykwim

@user593 no we paid a securing deposit of £500 to be booked in then have paid in increments on completion of sets of work. We have paid for the windows but not the fitting, preparatory work or obviously remedial work.

Why are you making this more complicated than it needs to be. Unusually, You paid the builder. Who then ordered the windows. Builder must fight his own battles. Yours is with the builder. Ask him for your money back, or an alternative supplier, or your'll have ti take him to the small claims court eventually.

Agree this is your builders problem. He sourced the company and I’m surprised he paid more than a deposit for them. But the issue is between them. He needs to find another supplier and fitter) or you do separate to him).
When I had bespoke wooden dash windows for my house I paid a deposit and rest of the payment after they were fitted. The guy was sourced through my builder but I paid him directly.

Exactly. You haven't been scammed, and you're wasting time and energy doing all this research into the fitting company. You'd be just as productive trying to research the factory where the glass is made.

You agreed a price (and presumably outline schedule) with a builder to supply and fit new windows. You paid in advance and they haven't carried out the work. Email him to say you've tried to be sympathetic to delays but you now need him to supply and fit the windows you've paid for.

There is no other way this will get resolved - you're the one with a delayed project and cash out of the bank, no one else. They're all covered. You have to force it.

Only the builder can claim money back from the supplier, only the supplier can claim back from someone else further down the chain etc. At the moment no one is doing anything because they've all got the cash in their banks,apart from you.