Survey showing two urgent issues - reduce offer?

[Lilyorange1]

Had a survey back on a 1960s bungalow we are looking to purchase. It has shown two issues requiring urgent attention.

1. Rain water pipes and gutters: Re-line/replace Finlock gutters. Check downpipe connections.
2. Conservatory and porches: Structural movement. Budget to remove /replace

Conservatory:

• Gaps were noted to the units and significant misalignment was seen. The surrounding external paved areas are very uneven.
• Externally, the concrete floor slab has parted from the framework. The movement is considered to be ongoing.
• There is the need to budget for the removal of this structure in due course. Tidying of the area will be needed.
• Due to the sub-soils in the area (loamy and clayey with impeded drainage), the slope of the plot and the surrounding vegetation, ongoing ground movement is likely to be experienced.

Gutters:

• Finlock gutters are considered to be a failing system due to their deterioration, cracking, and leaks. These issues then lead to internal dampness, mould, and structural issues.
• Such systems leaks at their joints. Sagging was noted in some areas. The blockwork also causes cold bridging. This is where cold materials meet warmer ones, leading to condensation and mould internally. Temporary repairs include lining the gutters with different materials. The most effective solution is to remove the old concrete system and replace them with a modern guttering system
• You are advised to budget for the cost and inconvenience of having to overhaul the rainwater guttering. The Finlock sections now need to be cleared and lined to ensure water tightness or you must budget for their replacement. Investigation into the water drainage from the downpipes is also required.

I'm not sure how to proceed, whether a structural engineers report is needed for the ground movement. The surveyor has suggested getting quotes for the works and then submitting a revised offer. I'm planning on this but unsure if the sellers would accept a reduction of the amount this work would take. Any advice appreciated.

The valuation has come in at 8k under our offer, so this combined with the issues is concerning me.

Would you reduce your offer/ accept a reduced offer? Would you obtain a structural engineers report?

Did you offer full asking price to start with?

I would only offer what the valuation came in at, or slightly more if I really wanted the property.

You should only pay what you’re willing to pay. The conservatory issues sound like they could be significant.

As to whether they’ll accept - depends how much they want to move, whether they had other offers, how long it had been on the market, whether you were already offering below asking.
A probate sale that had been on the market for ages - they’ll probably accept.
A new listing you offered on very quickly, and where they were maybe only considering moving if they could get the right price - they may not. My grandparents recently toyed with the idea of selling their bungalow and moving to a more central location due to age. They didn’t really want to, just felt it was sensible, so wouldn’t have reduced the price because they’d have been looking for a reason to not bother moving at all. No one can really say how a seller will react, so you can only think about what you’re willing to pay.

Was the property priced to allow for the work needed?

I only ask because we marketed my parents’ house at around £50-£75k less than it would have been worth with required modernisation completed (rewiring & radiators). The couple who purchased it at asking price were fully aware of this but the amount of prospective buyers who thought they could knock £75k off the already reduced asking price was astounding.

I offered 20k below asking. Felt this was still slightly above what it is worth, by about 5-10k but we had decided we really wanted it.

I should add that the valuation is from out mortgage company, not the surveyor, so doesn't take condition into account - would be significantly lower if it did.

They property came back to market as previous buyers dropped out + estate agents said this was because of a fairly negligible reason but I don't need necessarily believe that.

I do not believe the property is priced to reflect this workm it's overvalued based on our own comps and mortgage valuation. No issues were flagged on viewing.

• The surveyor says “Finlock gutters are considered to be a failing system due to their deterioration, cracking, and leaks. These issues then lead to internal dampness, mould, and structural issues.”

Does he mean he considers these particular gutters to be failing, and is there internal damp or mould? If I was selling a house with Finlock gutters which have never caused a problem, I wouldn’t be happy if a potential buyer wanted to knock the cost of replacement gutters of the price. Finlock gutters are made of concrete and are combined gutters and window lintels.

Both. I've been told that any finlock gutters would be rated as amber or red. It wasn't raining on the day of inspection but there is evidence of leaks/wet patches.

Given the average lifespan of 30 years, and these are from when the property was built circa 1960, I don't think this would be surprising to the owners.

That comment is because the building is 1960s, its over double the life expectancy for the concrete so there is a high risk of it developing issues in the near future even if its not already.

This may be paranoid but I'm concerned the sellers may have tried to hide evidence of problems, following the findings of the first survey from when the buyer pulled out.

The surveyor heavily hinted that they deliberately sat in the conservatory during the inspection. And they said they couldn't locate a key for the conservatory door, which I think is highly likely due to it not working due to the identified ground movement. Does this sound paranoid or a reasonable concern?

Hmm if I felt that the sellers were deliberately being sneaky, or even difficult towards the surveyor I’d be reluctant to carry on. House buying can be such a pain even with nice and cooperative people involved. This house sounds like it will need some work - is it worth it?

Get quotes for the work required to rectify the red issues and ask for a discount to reflect that. Be prepared for vendors to say no. I’ve just moved into a house on which the full survey reported significant roof issues and a need to replace the guttering and down pipes. As I plan to do a loft conversion anyway, I thought I was being super reasonable in saying I’d bear the cost of the roof and roll it into that work, but just wanted the price for the guttering and down pipes. Vendors told me to get a quote; quote was £4k. I’d already offered £40k over asking to get the house (competitive market in my area 6 months ago; has now dropped). Vendors said no. They decided the surveyor was wrong to say it was essential work and the quote was also unreasonable so they would allow only £1k. In the end their agent threw in £1k of his fee so we could meet in the middle and get the deal done. I was livid but I was desperate to move and there were no other decent houses in my price range.

Thanks for the reply. Reading and replying to these messages is helping me figure out if it's worth it - I'm not sure at the moment. We feel quite attached to it as it's one of the few roads we want to live on with a decent sized garden. So we were prepared to pay a bit over worth to secure it, but now im not sure how much we should be prepared to take on.

Yes I'm going to get quotes asap, I think rough estimate is around 10k though (replacing gutters but without replacing conservatory and just making good - getting a new door etc. which in my mind is reasonable)? However I have a feeling they may respond similarly to your sellers. How frustrating for you!

You’re probably already aware, but just pointing out that replacing Finlock gutters with plastic ones isn’t as straightforward as it sounds, because the concrete spans the full width of the wall, acting as wall plate (supporting the roof), gutters and window lintels. After taking concrete sections out, which involves stripping back a few rows of tiles, a new timber wall plate needs introducing, new lintels over windows. then new fascia, with insulation in between to stop the cold bridging. Then fit new gutters.

Thanks, I am somewhat aware but haven't come across these gutters until now. Not a simple job and expensive unfortunately!