Really need your advice about roof

[roofnightmare]

I really need the advice from you experienced Mumsnetters.

A few years ago we moved into our dream house. It's a beautiful, but it's quite remote. We have had a big leak. We think it is from the chimneys. But it's been extremely hard to even get people out to look at it and even harder to find anyone with availability.

We have managed with a great deal of difficulty to get two quotes. This is basically for the lead flashing. The two quotes are both very expensive. But one is hugely more so than the other. The most expensive one is used by listed building organisations which is reassuring, but won't give any guarantees on the work at all. The other sounds like he knows what he's doing, and offers a guarantee but I'm nervous as I have nothing really to go on in terms of recommendations particularly for an old building, and whilst online reviews are good, I have been stung by online recommendations before.

I am struggling to know what is reasonable for a quote of this kind. One quote is so high I don't know if it's even possible for us and I worry that if we went ahead and it turns out not to solve the issue that we'll be really stuck. The other is more affordable but I have so little to go on. Both are so much more than anything I can see advised online that I know i need to speak to someone more expert. I wonder if any of you would have any experience of these kinds of repairs and costs? It is a traditional slate roof but needs scaffolding and is remote. It is mainly the flashing at the base of chimneys that need replacing. The main differences I can see is that one is going to replace the chimney wall-plate (I cannot even find out what that is online) and also put in lead soakers with the slates. The other would attach the lead flashing into the stonework, but doesn't specifically mention wall-plate and lead soakers.

This is a very very high rainfall area, in case this is relevant to the approach taken. Thank you for any advice or pointers you can give me.

Bump. Anyone? Or is there another forum I should post in?

Are the 3 quotes itemised in terms of the areas of work so you can compare details?

Chimney work will always need scaffolding to meet H&S legal requirements. If scaffolding cost is itemised there should not be a large difference between the 2 quotes as the amount needed and the remote location are the main deciding factors on price. Duration of work (hire period) should be the same for both quotes)

you have a slate roof and believe that the leak is due to flashing failure. It is essential that soakers are installed, If one quote refers only to doing the flashing then that is an incomplete job and might explain the price difference as lead is very expensive. Leaving out soakers, or using short measurements, will save them money, make sure you get what you pay for!

watch this video to understand soakers and flashing. The last bit covers your scenario of flashing on a chimney with slate tiles. Obviously you will not be watching them do the work, but the video covers measurements and fixing methods so you might want to get written confirmation of how each intends to do it

In my world, wall plate is the name given to the wood attached to the chimney on the which the rest of the roof woodwork sits. As there is a leak, you do not know how rotten that wood is until the slates are taken off and the work starts. A quote that gives you an upfront cost means no surprises. Equally you might want to negotiate that if wood is sound then the plate will not be replaced and that cost will not be charged. However, a "high end" contractor may be professionally very unhappy with that and consider new lead to old wood to be an utter bodge job (invalidating their guarantee?)

the other quote may then turn out to need an "extra over" cost on the basis that work has to be done once the status of the existing is visible. That extra cost, not quoted upfront, could be very uncompetitive..

on the info you give you are between a rock and a hard place. Gut reaction is your main problem is lack of competition, you appear to have a belt and braces high end pricey contractor versus a probably perfectly competent roofer who is producing a quote that may not include all the work that ends up needing to be done. So final bill is more than the quote anyway.

• I assume you are not a listed building? However, if one contractor targets that market then they may just have used their "normal" rate without adjusting for it not being listed. Listed building contractors have high rates as the work is, of necessity, to a high standard (skills and / or time).
• as one quote is silent on soakers then that is undoubtedly a cost factor. and in high rainfall area their lack is probably counter productive so you may need to test that guarantee to get the work redone...
• itemise the quotes and discuss possibility of options to include or exclude costs once the roof condition is actually known?

From my own experience of having an older property and a leak via the chimney I'd go with the cheaper option as we've now had three roofers to "fix the chimney" and it still leaks when it rains on the right angle. Chimneys are notorious for being hard to fix so assume the first fix as in the lead flashing won't solve it all. We had our flashing done and it made no difference. Turns out for us is was the gap between the bricks where the flashing was tucked into had over time had widened and then the adhesive the roofers were using to fill the hole while shrink and basically leave a gap between the adhesive and the brick. We had to get a roofer to use mortar instead of the "newer and better " adhesive
Freak thing to happen but we fixed it through trial and error and it still leaks at time. I now think the top has a crack in it 😬
If it is an older property there are many forums on Facebook around Victorian/ Georgian renovation projects and they will be good to join up you can bet great advise in tjere

Victorian and Edwardian renovations diy

Victorian, Edwardian and Georgian renovations uk

These are two I'm in

I feel your pain. I was once quoted a phenomenal sum for a leak around a chimney - they were going to rip a whole sections of roof off and reinstate the tiles.

I blagged some advice from someone I knew (I had not asked him as I knew how busy he was, but just asked him to comment on the quote and planned actions) and he hopped up on the roof, bunged in some lead and charged me a tiny amount. It has been fine for years.

His comments on the cowboys who had given the original quote were unrepeatable!

MSE forum is a good place to post queries too. I'm fairly certain there's a home owning / is this quote reasonable section all to itself.

I can offer a small bit of advice, as I own a scaffolding company.

Look around your local area/town and see who does the most scaffolding in the area, on nice big period properties, churches etc. Look them up online and see how long they've been around, who they list their clinets as on their website etc. DON'T EVER get someone off checkatrade.com (for anything!) as they are almost always cowboys and you'll get ripped off.

Give them a call and ask them to come out and quote for your scaffolding. It's a 'stack scaffold' and you also need to tell them it's listed and ask how it will be tied in to the building. If they use big bolts to tie the scaffold in, ask how they will remove the ties and fill the holes in again after. Paying the scaffolding firm directly can save you quite a bit, as the roofer will usually add another 10% on for himself.

Ask the scaffolding boss who they would recommend. We normally have special relationships with various roofers who we work with year in year out. A reputable scaffolding company will only work for reputable roofers and vice versa.

And don't believe this weird myth that I see continuously on MN, that scaffolders leave your scaffolding up as they don't want to pay to store it somewhere. Utter rubbish. 😂 We want our scaffolding up and down quickly and on to the next job. It's needed back in the yard as soon as possible!

Thank you all so much for your replies. Really helpful. Although I'm still confused as to the best way forward. Thank you @Wot23 for all that detail on soakers and wall-plates. Thanks @WhatMe123 and @Mischance for articulating one of my fears that is what if it doesn't work and we have just burned through a ton of cash that we can't afford and it doesn't even fix the problem.

@JellyComb Interesting idea to chat to scaffolding companies.