Your alternatives ideas to a side return - want to avoid!

[Champersandfizz]

I really want to avoid a side return, too much dust and bother, I just can't do it. Not enough garden to do a back extension even if i wanted to, either (which i don't!)

I was thinking of maybe an oriel window, or maybe making the back wall and the side wall sliding doors / bifold / bid windows to get light in. Attached example of ground floor nearby with no work done

Also, houses nearby do have loft extensions, but they don't seem to be able to get two rooms up there, except for this kind of set up (also attached, an example of just such a loft, but this one with a very slim long second space). What would you do with this second space if you chose to get it done?

If you have any ideas, please let me know!

I think the starting it point is what problem are you trying to solve?

If the house is too small, then an extension or loft conversion makes sense.

If the issue is just light, then a window would be all you need.

The spiral staircase on the loft seems to take up loads of space.

but what do you want to achieve? Any building work will involve dust and bother so that doesn’t seem like a good reason to rule out the side return

What is your long - term plans, do you currently have children/lots of people to house, and what is your budget?

I have pretty much your house and really regret not doing the side return when we first moved in. Makes such a difference to the house. Yes it's expensive but if you are planning to buy there long term you will enjoy the space. We had the loft done but got 2 reasonably decent rooms and a shower room up there. We aren't staying much longer so side return doesn't make financial sense for us.

This house is undeveloped. Houses that have been remodelled fetch about 25% more, at least, so I want to do something to invest in the property. I also have 3 children and this is a 3 bed, so I will do the loft anyway.

Therefore, I only 'need' one more bedroom in the loft, so my question is, while I am up there, is there any point in doing a 6ft by 15ft room. The example I posted above is not actually a great one, let me try to find another. I'm just wondering whether that second long room seems functional or useful.

About the side return. I have done it before and I really don't want the undertaking. I would like to make good use of that space next to the house, but I wonder what that might be? I thought on oriel window might be a good idea and if it had a glass ceiling, it would allow more light in to the room. I would probably put a table in front of it too, so it could function as a seat / bench, so effectively, we are still using the outside space

If side return extensions are usual round your area then I doubt an oriel window or anything that isn’t a proper side return will increase value. As most buyers will be intending to do the side return at some point so it’d just be ripped out.

Re the loft - in your second example
that long room looks like a decent, if skinny, bedroom. Does it meet fire regs if just Velux windows (I’m not up to date on this)?

Did I say they were usual? If so, i apologise. They are often a choice for people who are doing lots of work on the house. I just don't want to. I think you get back what you spend, and honestly I like to have that space.

I was thinking of removing the brick on that side wall and replacing it with, yes, an oriel window, or bifolds / sliding doors, to bring that outside space in a little? Maybe with those wooden structures that would attach to teh wall, with flowers / plants eventually climbing them. I just don't think we need to build on every inch.

In this area a good design achieves a premium, I have noticed for example, that houses with a huge ensuite (converting one bedroom to the ensuite) sell for a lot more than those that keep the room as a bedroom. So in this area it is very much about the smart design.

In my last house the side return cost me £100k, but put £200k on the value, so I did it. Without a decent return I won't bother.

This kind of idea, but more stylish!!! make more of the garden part of that side section that people often turn into a side return extension.

Any ideas on how to make use of that space in a way that adds to the house?

I wouldn’t want the major stress of a side extension for the relative small
gain in space. Presuming you’re happy with the internal room sizes as they are.

I would fit sliding doors (no idea what an orial window is, sorry!) and build a wooden frame to support a Perspex roof over the side return. Hand sail cloths/grow plants on the inside to hide the Perspex. My friend has this, and uses the undercover outside area for all sorts of things (hot tub/drying washing when it’s raining/park the pram for baby to sleep in/sitting outside in summer even when raining ….

Under cover outside space is a brilliant addition to any home. I am desperate for our patio to be covered!

You need a proper side return, anything else would be a waste of money. I’ve lived in a similar area and people who have fannied around with the kitchen have ended up devaluing the house because any new buyer wants to rip it all out to do the side return! If you want it for you that’s different but don’t expect it to add value. I’d consider saving some money so you can move out, or planning it carefully so a lot could be done next summer when you could perhaps stay with family.

Looking at the loft plan, the stairs are an issue. I suspect that the people doing it had either used permitted development (badly) or did it some time ago. You need the stairs ideally to follow the main stairs up and then build a dormer or mansard roof along the back and the sides (the outrigger). We managed to do this with permitted development (as well as the side return), but I know others who have done the outrigger under permitted development and then applied for the dormer under planning (which would be very difficult to refuse if there’s precedent). You then end up with a floor plan something like this (dimensions might be slightly different but you get the idea). The image shows what it might look like (not everyone’s cup of tea but this is how you get the space and add value).

Yes,

This is a conservation area, so I think is why a loft conversion such as yours is not allowed (everything needs PP i this area). I did the same as your loft in my last house, two beds, and a bathroom up there. nearly the same footprint as the first and ground floors. I am in the process of the buying the house I am talking about so not yet enquired with the council, but given houses in this area are 7 figures, I expect it is not cost or decent architects that holds people back from building more on the loft.

On the side return, it will cost as much as it will add I believe, so I can't see the point with 2 children going through 11 plus in next 2 years, life is hard enough for no financial gain (I will check that with the estate agent, but looking at sold price, it is the loft extra bedroom that lifts the price and the layout of the rest of the house. What I'm really asking now, I realise, is how to create a wow factor without doing the side return.

If you’re in a conservation area then yes, re the loft, you’d be better off just aiming for one room with maybe an en suite. If there is no precedent for gable loft extensions then this will limit what you can do.

I get what you’re saying about the side return but in reality there’s very little that can be done with that area if you’re not going to bring it inside the house. Depends which way it faces but they are often dark, dingy, overlooked and have uneven groundwork (often there was a big drain there). Remember they used to be for swilling out chamber pots and kitchen waste! You may find it difficult to get plants established there too.

I’ve seen lots of lovely outdoor rooms with outdoor kitchens, sofas etc but they tend to be at the end of the garden rather than right by the house.

In your position I’d probably tidy it up, invest in some movable pots and furniture and see if you want to sit outside there, then wait until the kids have done exams and have a re-think.

Oh and also, do check with estate agents but in my last area it was the side return that added the value, not the loft. Precisely because it wasn’t great to live through!

Yes!

That was the case in my current house. I think it might also be because the gardens are fairly small, so there is no option to do a wrap around, and the side return is only about 1.5m wide, so you're looking at 1.5m x 7m space.

But I certainly will check with the agents.

I think you get back what you spend

Definitely not the case if what you’ve done isn’t what most people want unfortunately.

I think a properly done side return and/or loft will add value - but perhaps not much more than the cost of doing them, these days. Any kind of halfway house, I wouldn’t count on getting it back. Especially in a £1m+ area where I suspect most buyers will intend to do the side return, perhaps not immediately but at some point.

Do the oriel window/sliding doors etc if you will benefit from it enough to justify the cost, but not for resale value.

What I'm really asking now, I realise, is how to create a wow factor without doing the side return.

Decor maybe? I am more interested in building work than decor and it sounds like you may be the same - but time and again I see houses highly priced (and sold quickly) because they look “interior designed” - built in joinery, naice lamps, lovely coordinating furniture and furnishings, planned out art and accessories. All this costs less than significant building work and you get to take a lot of it with you when you move.

This is my point.

For example, in the area one house has sold for around £200k + more than many others, because they converted one bedroom into a bathroom ensuite, and made what was a bathroom a much smaller bedroom. There is not much else difference between them than that. I suspect people just LOVED the idea of a huge art deco looking bathroom. I'd do that before spending £100k+ and much stress on a side return extension to increase the value of the house by £150k, if that, although a 30-40% return on money is of course really good, but not so much against the value of the house. Changing those bathrooms and bedrooms around is more like £30k cost.

Also, with a side return you really need to make the entire ceiling glass in order to get the kind of stunning light well feature, otherwise they ca feel long and dark, I honestly prefer to have the original side wall all glass, and the back wall glass, and open both up in summer to let the outside in, it makes for a lovely entertaining space too. Like this:

I'm planning on an oriel window in the next year or two. I don't want a side return extension, mainly because I love that part of the garden. The side return gets very little sun and I've a couple of big acers and lots of ferns planted, all in big pots. The planting is quite dense and I find that in really hot weather opening all of the windows facing into this area cools down the whole house very effectively. That said, the first room in the back addition does tend towards dark and cold so I've been tracking the sun at various times of year and think that an oriel window with a glass roof will really brighten and open out the room.
I've also recently completed a loft conversion and went for a single massive bedroom in the main loft area and a decent sized bathroom on top of the first part of the back addition. The new bedroom is big enough to be divided if that's needed in the future

I would think about a kind of glass room on the side. Then it would still feel light and airy, not so much the enclosed feel of the side return with two closed, tall walls on both sides:

Anyway, these are just my warblings!!! Was hoping for some ideas and I thank all those who have shared some thoughts.

I don’t think a spiral staircase meets fire regs for a loft. I think the stairs must be enclosed with a fire door too.

That side glass extension looks
great in that picture but a) would it work so well in a terraced house, where the view is of the boundary fence? and b) I suspect by the time you’ve knocked down the side wall, put in steels and bought and installed the glass, it will cost the same if not more than a side return. Sorry to be so negative!

PS perhaps yours is not a terrace, apols if so

Is the space for the side return not small (think you said 1.5m) because it's close to next door's fence?

If so, a space at the side opening onto a fence is nothing like a space at the back opening up onto the garden. One does make a great entertaining space, yes. The other ... not so much

I think the glass at the side can be striking IF it doesn't just look at a mossy green and brown fence. I think some creatives can think of way to improve that look. I think that would also be quite different to all other houses that have done the side extension, too. I did see one house on the rightmove sold prices page that had done a glass thing to the side and kept the wall in (and used it for a utility, so it wasn't part of the kitchen, it stayed separate, and it went for EVEN MORE), so I think buyers are looking for something different. The massive en suite that makes them feel like royalty (?!) and the glass room on the side perhaps are just those kind of things, rather than a usual side return with two long roof lights in the ceiling.

This is a temporary home for us. My plan would be to move again in 5 years to my 'forever' home. I'm in this area for schools.

I think the foundations are quite pricey and faffy and aarrrggghhh! And then to wall takes up a lot of space, too. It is true I haven't looked to see what next door have done, they might already have a wall straddling the party wall.

If next door have already built a boundary wall, then filling in the side return but without knocking through fully could be a good idea. You could eg make the garden end of the side return a tiny study and the other end a tiny utility/ laundry area. Study and utility very much on buyer wish lists! Might not be enough space, depends how wide the side return is.

If you plan on moving in 5 years and in that time you have busy school years why not just keep the house as is and just spend money on the interior especially stuff you can take with you.

With regards the outside space again if you plan on moving in 5 years anything that requires plants to grow to cover will mean it's not great for you. You want It laid out so you get to enjoy it immediately. It might be worth investing in the services of a proper garden designer.