Would you buy it?

[RuralDream91]

We keep going back and forth on a property we have been to view and I think it might help to have an outside perspective.

4 bedroom (5 bedroom if you include a games room), 3 with ensuite, 1 main bathroom upstairs and a small downstairs toilet downstairs.

Built around 40 years ago so will need new windows, doors, wiring, heating system, insulation, and all new bathrooms/ toilets. We would need to remodel the downstairs as it’s currently a tiny weird kitchen with enormous living space. It’s EPC F and council tax band G. It is run on LPG gas so heating costs are £500 a month (this would have to go).

We would need to spend £150-200k to modernise it and they want £600k. Next door sold for £700k in 2023 fully renovated, double garage, EPC C and council tax band E.

It’s been on the market 4 months and they’ve dropped the price to £600 from £675. Would you offer £420k (30% less than current asking)? There have been no other viewings or offers and they need to sell fast. We can’t justify paying £600k in its current state and given the lack of interest, it seems to be a price issue but we don’t want to offend anyone!

I completely understand this but regardless both couples have acknowledged that this property would need a new kitchen. Why would anyone pay for a house that hasn’t had any work since it was built 40 years ago? I have completely renovated my house and I’d be really pissed off if next door, who hasn’t touched it since they moved in 30 years ago got the same money for it that I got for mine when I’ve put blood, sweat and an awful lot of money into it!! If a buyer views mine and says, do you know what, I’d rather carpet in the lounge than the oak parquet you have, well that’s on them. Thats decorative/ taste. They will however, have a fully compliant wiring system, a brand new boiler, brand new windows and doors (that you can open properly and see out of) and an EPC that reflect that work! It was EPC F when I bought it.

I may not have worded this correctly but in my mind, the issues we saw on viewing and determined when speaking with the owners were not decorative. There’s a difference between not having a working shower and maybe having the wrong colour tiles.

They absolutely have to sell and we were the first viewing in months (we viewed knowing the price wasn’t right) but it could be lovely. Thank you for your perspective - nice to hear it worked out!

The plan is to have a discussion with the EA to get a feel for things. The owner seemed totally fed up, they have to sell, they have another property they’ve moved into and this is a massive money pit eating into their retirement fund! I think the EA sold them a dream with the valuation and I’m sure that’s really hard to swallow. To have no viewings all this time surely should have rang alarm bells! It’s an incredibly popular area.

It’s a very large property in the back end of nowhere - it’s going to be expensive to renovate. It has 5 bedrooms that all need insulating and new windows (there’s damp), 4 bathrooms that saw better days 40 years ago. A kitchen that looks well loved. I would never want to offend the owners - they raised their children there but have poured all their money into their new property, and it shows.

I would have no problem offering well below the asking price. Your calculations for the work required sound accurate and your reasoning makes sense. If you can put your offer in directly to the owner do that at the same time as giving to the estate agent in case the agent doesn't pass it on. Totally illegal but does happen.
We didn't trust agent to pass the offer on to our seller so also contacted the seller at the same time. Agent said no way but the seller accepted without any problem.
It's worth listening to You and Yours on radio 4 from Tues this week. It's a real eye opener into the crooked world of estate agents!!

There’s 5 square meters difference - I suspect the valuations were done when this house was fairly new build. Next door was extended and modernised a couple of years ago so may not have had the updated council tax band. I’m not certain on that but next door is far nicer in spec, has big garages etc- I’m not sure what the valuation officer would have looked at to determine the band though.

@housethatbuiltme you wouldn’t be able to refurbish a large 4+ bed detached in my area for £160k. No where near if we are talking about new windows/doors/bathrooms/kitchen/flooring/electrics and some plumbing. Looking at minimum £250k so depends what the area is I suppose.

This is the plan - it seems bonkers to pay over the odds for it, have all the work to do and then not be able to get those costs back at resale. There’s a ceiling height and back when next door was sold, things were far better for sellers. It’s a buyers market right now. Even when the market was booming, the house was on the market for a whole year. I have to consider these things because we are a fairly young couple and this is unlikely to be our forever home. I wouldn’t want to spend all this money on a property that without significant outlay won’t match next door! To build a garage like theirs would be £70-80k around here! Our semi-detached rendering was 20k and is 1/3 of the size of this detached if not even smaller!

Nobody here can tell you what the property is 'worth' - and whether the Seller and EA are dreaming, or whether you are.

Just offer what it's worth to you, balancing the 'regret risk' of not getting it with the risk of overpaying. Then great if you get it, and it wasn't a deal you wanted if you don't.

Thank you - very helpful and a real shame you have to be so cautious with EAs. They are particularly useless around here. 3 weeks for a viewing! I physically go into the shop these days because it’s a nightmare getting through to anyone.
The owners seemed frustrated at the lack of interest in the property and I blame the EA for over inflating the valuation.

Also, I'm not sure that pricing renovations and knocking that off the price (or adding on desirable features from other properties) is a particularly good way of valuing a house.

This is a good point! If we don’t get it, there will be no regret. It was simply not to be! We are going to view the other property and will speak to the EA to try and understand the disparity between this property and others in the area. My view is that they are clinging on to crazy Covid prices

How would you value it? That seems to be how zoopla works. Its how we have valued others, including the one we have now. Always open to new ideas/ ways of thinking. It’s difficult around here because properties aren’t all stacked up in neat streets. Our neighbours can be in the next postcode!

Maybe I should have explained this better in my OP! It’s going to cost us a crazy amount and there are no plans for any major structural work or extensions. The cesspit needs changing and apparently that now needs to be a sewage treatment plant and they’ve been quoted £15k for that. I asked my father in law for a window quotation and he estimates in the region of 30k depending on spec and that’s mates rates and upvc. I think we would opt to brick some of the external doors up as there are loads.

It really depends on the local market and how much you understand it. I viewed a house that was on the market for offers over £575k. It needed a lot of work doing and my assessment (I’m not in the property business) was that it would be worth about £600k once fully renovated, I estimated the renovations to be around £100k. I offered £485k, it was rejected and the estate agent told me that they would never accept anything under £500k. I was interested in another house, I offered as a final offer £510k, it was rejected and I bought the other house. The house was on the market for another two years and recently sold for £490k.

You should only ever offer what the house is worth to you. Don’t worry about offending people, just stick to a value that represents it’s worth to you.

I completely understand this but regardless both couples have acknowledged that this property would need a new kitchen. Why would anyone pay for a house that hasn’t had any work since it was built 40 years ago? I have completely renovated my house and I’d be really pissed off if next door, who hasn’t touched it since they moved in 30 years ago got the same money for it that I got for mine when I’ve put blood, sweat and an awful lot of money into it!!

That’s the state of the property market today, unrenovated houses often cost the same as a fully refurbished property and most people want to put in their own kitchens in so would opt for the property that needs updating rather than rip out a perfectly good kitchen that just isn’t their aesthetic.

I think they'd have to be pretty desperate to accept that @RuralDream91!

We looked at two houses when we were relocating back to England from Wales last year. Each had been owned by the family for decades (one was a deceased estate purchased in 1970, the other had been in the same family for 100 years) and hadn't really been touched in that time.

The first - more characterful one - needed a new roof and had horrific damp everywhere but had been rewired/new boiler at some point fairly recently. The second had been butchered from two Georgian cottages in the mid 1960s with no original features remaining and needed a new heating system/possible rewire. Both had 1960s/70s kitchen, bathroom, fireplaces etc. Conservation area with strict rules on upvc windows (not that we'd want those anyway).

We offered 15% under asking on the first one and were told the vendor wouldn't accept less than 430k (it was on for 450 and had been for ages). We walked away and she did a cheap renovation herself (my OH has been inside and she's kept the same basic 1950s kitchen and fitted awful shiny grey carpets everywhere!). It's just about to go back on the market at 650k.

We offered 10% under on the second one. The executors rejected that and after a lot of dithering on their part we eventually settled at 8% off.

We were cash buyers and were able to proceed quickly, but that made very little difference.

Obviously the market has changed since mid 2024 when we were moving, but nonetheless I think it unlikely 30% under would be accepted when they've already dropped considerably.

I really hope not! I’m going to speak to the EA, get a feel for what is going on I.e why is nobody viewing this house? It has lovely character and in a decent location, so I don’t think it’s the house or area. My guess is the price, and go from there!

Thank you for your perspective. It is super helpful! I’m struggling to figure out why EAs are pricing these houses so much higher than the buyer will pay for them. My friends house has been on the market 3 years for just shy of 2 million. Unless a Londoner takes a fancy to it, it will never sell for that (not to a local).

Come on, this is buying a house.

It's not Vinted

You should always remember that the real estate agent is working for the vendor, not you. He or she doesn't have the purchaser's best interests at heart, regardless of what they may imply. I'm not really seeing that losing the support of the estate agent from a a low offer is a real thing.

Not necessarily! Our house is nearly 60 years old and we’ve just had the wiring checked and it’s absolutely fine! Apart from the heating everything else is cosmetic! You clearly are deluded if you think they’ll accept at 30% drop when they’ve already made a significant drop! To me it sounds like realistically you cannot afford it!

£420 is an offensive offer; look elsewhere to see what your money gets you.

I think you should make an offer. If the vendor is offended, and tells you to get lost, so what? It may be that the vendor will make a counter-offer, and that's what negotiating is all about.

Please be kind enough to update this thread when you've made a decision.

You say the LPG will “have to go”. What are you planning on replacing it with? It’s probably not anywhere near a mains gas supply, hence the LPG. Getting a gas main to your property will be expensive.