Have I been scammed?

[Gottabesomethingbetterthanthis]

Downstairs toilet extension, finally got a builder to quote - not the cheapest, not the most expensive, and provided a detailed, itemised quote. All seemed fine, contract signed, small deposit paid with a suggested start date of 7th July.

So by now, 1st July, I would have expected to have had some communication from him confirming arrangements for next week. But nothing.

I emailed him on Sunday night asking him to confirm start date, when skip was arriving so that we could inform neighbours, and what his schedule of work would be that first week so that we could make arrangements with work etc.

No response by email. I texted him this morning him asking him to respond to my email. No response by text. Hubby will call him tomorrow.

But gut instinct is telling me we've been diddled...

If we have, how do we get our deposit back (was £1500).

How did you pay your deposit? If in cash, then you may have a problem, if on a card you would have more protection.

Never pay money up front. They dont need it - they have lines of credit / accounts with their suppliers.

was he recommended?

I know I know... I always question, do we need to pay a deposit and when I've spoken to other people some have said yes, it's normal for a decent sized project or no, don't pay a thing!

Yeah... we paid by bank transfer.

To be honest, the loss of the money is not a huge thing when I shudder to think if they start the work and then bodge it up and we lose more than £1500!!

Not recommended but I did some research. But I could kick myself. I should have listened to my gut instinct.

Besides all that... my question was... from what I've said, does it look very dodgy?

I know appearances are nothing to go by.. and members of 'this' and members of 'that', the same.. he is registered with Federation of Master Builders so we could use them to assist in retrieving the deposit.

If he is on a job he may not know for certain until the current one is complete.

I think emailing on a Sunday an then texting today is unnecessary. Give the guy a chance!

In my experience it’s pretty normal for tradesman to take a day (or 3!) to come back to you - most don’t have office support staff picking up and dealing with emails so unlikely to respond quickly and text messages could be read whilst he’s up a ladder or something and then forgotten about

give him the benefit of the doubt and try ringing and then follow up with a text

You contacted him on a Sunday so he probably didn’t see (or think about) your message until yesterday.
We have builders in at the moment and they only tell me what’s happening a couple of days before so you may just have a bad communicator. I wouldn’t worry just yet. He may not be 100% sure himself.

Agree, I usually pay the day they start the work. Or with some builders if itemized each time they complete part of the work.

Builders are often running late on other projects. Don't panic (yet). It might take a while for him to get back to you and the start date might get pushed back.

Worst case scenario you will be able to claim your deposit back if he doesn't start within a reasonable time. You might have to do so through small claims, but you have his details and a record of the bank transaction so all is not lost.

I hardly think it's unnecessary - it's called communication with your customer after all, we've got things to organise at home, at work.. he can't decide when to start if different to what was stated on the contract as he doesn't know our plans! With a week to go til 'start' date, I would have expected him to have reached out to me to tell me what's happening next week, not leave it until a few days before. And if he can't start on said date, a quick email to advise would be courteous!

He was very communicative when he was chasing the deposit!!

That’s in the normal world though. Builders are a law unto themselves. They are notorious for it, apart from when they want money.

It’s normal to pay a deposit for jobs like this and I think it’s too early to assume you have been scammed. Builders often don’t communicate much apart from when they are trying to win new business.

Hope you hear from him today @Gottabesomethingbetterthanthis

I hate to tarnish all tradesmen with the same brush but they are CRAP at communication. We’ve had 2xplumbers 1x electrician and 1x carpenter round recently and we’ve had to chase them all. Like, call every other day for two weeks.

They told me to keep calling them, they’re busy and need regular reminding. Emails are a no-go. Keep calling each day.

He won't be replying to emails if he's on a job which presumably he was yesterday, especially if he has to set out a detailed timetable. I'd not be expecting any contact until the back end of this week and then just to confirm he's starting Monday. The skip will probably just turn up without warning in my experience!

In my experience he'll just turn up one day in about three weeks' time and then be surprised you're not at home.

I work on £multi million projects and have done for 30 years. The one thing I can set my watch by is contractors submitting their applications for payments. I can be chasing them for information for weeks and never hear a peep, but their application comes in right on time. For a whole week they are very responsive to communications about their payment, then they disappear for another month.

You don’t know if you’ve been scammed until he doesn’t turn up.

Too late for you, but never pay a deposit. It isn’t required and a reputable builder won’t ask for one. They may ask for money up front to buy materials, particularly if you are looking for high end spec, but the way to deal with that is to buy them yourself.

My sympathies OP!

We're going through this now, have just put down a deposit on a new kitchen. We did check beforehand that the company had great reviews (going back years as well as recent). And they have an actual established showroom. And they were really good at contacting us, arranging several appointments the showroom, did a detailed survey of our kitchen space, very detailed discussions in the showroom of all options. Then we paid the deposit last week, they were supposed to email through all the confirmations, design packs, etc the next day - radio silence. Not panicking yet as it has been only a few days but now I'm feeling like an utter idiot when I read "Don't ever pay a deposit".

Thing is, we've had other building work (e.g. windows, doors) done via established companies and have typically paid a deposit for them to initiate manufacture. So it doesn't seem at all "off" to me and now I'm questioning whether all those other companies were in the wrong, even though those works went ahead smoothly.

I’ve paid deposits up front nearly every time I’ve had work done on the house & never been scammed.

It seems like it’s not everyone’s experience but where I live in the South, builders expect deposits and if you say No you probably lose your builder.

In the unlikely event it does turn out to be a scam you should be able to reclaim the money via your bank - new rules introduced in October last year mean banks have to reimburse most fraudulent bank transfers up to the value of £85k. You can look up the APP (authorised push payment) reimbursement guidelines for more info.

Our bathroom fitters didn't use a skip. They piled rubbish up in the yard and then one day a guy came to take it away.

I imagine it was cheaper for them to do it that way, but it would have been good for them to run it by us first.

Haven't heard anything so hubby called today from my phone.. "Oh hi xxxx!" said the builder, thinking it was me. So hubby proceeded to ask when he intended starting work. "Oh I was going to respond to the email... um, start next Tuesday, maybe Weds.." Hubby.. "We need an exact date as we have things to organise." Builder, "Ok.. next Wednesday."

The skip was part of the itemised quote and we must know when it's being delivered as it will be parked on the street, must be space outside, not halfway up or down the street!

So.. let's see what happens.

Positive that your husband spoke to him anyway.

Just sounds like a typical builder to me. They don't really take into account that their customers might have other stuff to organise, in my experience. They are just juggling various jobs and giving quotes.

I kept having that horrible feeling in the pit of my stomach about this builder, getting worse as 'the day' drew near and so hubby called him again today to check on arrangements for Wednesday (the day builder said he would start work.) Builder replied 'Oh sorry, can't make Wednesday now, I've got a funeral to attend.' Silence. "Yeah my aunt passed away and so I've got to go to her funeral on Wednesday." Well... funeral must have been organised pretty damn quick as he didn't mention that to me when we texted last Thursday 3rd July confirming building start date 9th July. (UK funerals are generally organised in 1-2 weeks, sometimes sooner.. but anyway).. "So can start Thursday". Um, nope, not gonna happen. So cancelled with him (we are within the 14 day cooling period). It's also likely he hadn't purchased any materials, or even booked the skip because if he had I'm sure he'd have asked to have been paid for those purchases. Let's see if he returns our deposit.

I hope we've done the right thing. I was so nervous and kept thinking, what if we're left with a huge whole outside our back garden, builder disappeared, winter coming, no other builder wants to complete the job.. more money.

I'd rather put a bucket outside and use that for emergencies than risk losing £15k! Maybe he could have done a good job.. but I think his total lack of communication, the fact that today I also saw he's posted an advert on FB looking for construction staff, to me - red flags.

Update:

Two months later, and with the help of the Federation of Master Builders who acted as mediators, finally got our deposit back, in full in one bank transfer.

Do you mind me asking: did you have to go through small claim court for this? I am going through something similar but with a builder who actually started the job ...