Electrical issue highlighted by house survey

[Gertygypsey]

We are in the process of moving. Our new house is at the higher end of the market for our area. The house is approximately 50 years old but I presumed in good order when we made the offer ( decent kitchen / new bathrooms etc) Our survey has highlighted a number of issues, some I am happy to overlook as we can sort down the line but two have safety implications. The vendor has agreed to sort one but the not the other - the electrical circuit board / fuse box which our surveyor says is a very likely safety hazard. I have asked (as advised by our surveyor) that an electrician properly checks the system and certifies it is safe (the surveyor thinks that the age / condition of the fuse box might indicate all the electrics may need replaced). They have refused.

I feel that the property being safe to live in is a deal breaker but my husband is saying I’m being ridiculous and this should be expected with the age of the house. The house is not a doer-upper by any means and we had assumed when we made the offer that property was in good condition. Am I being unreasonable to push this further? We are a few weeks from moving date .

What did the surveyor says exactly? Surveyors will almost always cover their backsides by recommending you get a full electrical check done. Doesn’t necessarily mean there is any problem.

Have the vendors completely refused to let you get an electrical check done, or are they just refusing to arrange/pay for one? If the former then alarm bells should be ringing. If the latter then they are being entirely reasonable, and you can arrange/pay for the check if you want one.

Check what the surveyor is actually saying. Surveys are nightmares for putting the willies up people unnecessarily. If it says something like "doesn't meet current building regs" or "doesn't meet current safety standards", it isn't actually saying that the electrics are unsafe. Standards are always changing and developing and not meeting current regs generally indicates that the regs changed rather than the system became unsafe. Surveyors never actually check the electrics, they always pass the buck to a qualified electrician, so it's a very standard clause in a survey to suggest you have the electrics checked, it doesn't necessarily imply there's a problem with the electrics.
Of course it might be that the property DOES need rewiring, but without seeing what the surveyor actually says, no-one can interpret the details for you.

Chartered Building Surveyor here.
The reason we recommend a qualified electrician checks the electrics in a property is because we’re surveyors, not electricians. Gaining the qualifications and maintaining the appropriate accreditations to properly test gas and electrics is very expensive.. especially on top of the qualifications, accreditations and memberships a Surveyor should have. It’s just not practical to train as a surveyor AND be a qualified gas engineer and electrician. It would also hugely increase the amount of time we spend on site which would have to be reflected in our fee… which no one wants to pay.

We also don’t carry tools to do the electrical checks and whilst we can identify whether there are any immediately apparent issues we aren’t going to test any circuits or equipment.

My advice is always to check whether any electrical & gas tests have been done within the last 12 months. If they’re not available you should have them checked- whether you (the buyer) or the vendor pay for those inspections is for you to negotiate.

If a vendor refuses to allow an electrician in to the property even when you’re paying then I would be very suspicious.

Whether you let it be a deal breaker over whether you buy this house or not is up to you.. an electrician should be able to give you a fairly accurate worst case scenario quote for rewiring the house. A gas engineer could give you a ball park figure for a new boiler and radiators. At least then you know what you’re in for if it’s all knackered!

Thanks for all your replies. We haven’t gotten the full report yet but the surveyor has said the circuit board/ fuse box will definitely need replaced as it has no circuit breaker and there is a risk of electrical fire and electrocution. He said this may also indicate other issues. We initially asked for any certificates (which they provided for the heating system) but they have none for the electrics. They also said they would not get an electrician in to certify the safety of the system. I expect a lot of this is down to the fact that they are leaving the country next week and this is a hassle. I will go back to them and offer to organise an electrician myself.

If you arrange one yourself and they refuse entry that’s an issue, otherwise having lived in old property we’ve always had a fuse board change and some updates.

as long as you don’t need a full rewire then its only a few £100, also beware lots of electrical teams will advise rewire as they can make thousands, as long as it meets regulations you are good to go.

We haven’t gotten the full report yet but the "surveyor has said the circuit board/ fuse box will definitely need replaced as it has no circuit breaker and there is a risk of electrical fire and electrocution"

Probably an old style wylex box which has either fuse wire ( or modern switch type fuses added). These are common in older houses from the 70' and 80's.

This is not dangerous in itself but has less circuits than modern ones and will lack RCD protection.

As a Pp said of more concern would be the type/ condition of wiring in the house which is far more expensive to replace. ..

Did you offer to pay for your own eicr and they refused access? This would be unreasonable of the vendor

Or did you ask the vendor to have the wiring brought up to date? They have presumably lived there some time so don't see it as an issue

Our fuse box from the late 80s had no RCD so we used one of those RCD plugs for some things like the lawnmower. We got it changed about 6 years ago as we wanted additional sockets. We didn't need a rewire as the wiring was fine, also done in the late 80s, we had it all checked and a cooker circuit added. Hopefully the only thing you will need is a new fuse box which I would get.

Sounds like all the surveyor is saying is that an older wire fuse fuse box is fitted rather than a modern RCD one. Not uncommon at all, and he’s just given you a standard ‘recommend you get the electrical system checked ‘ comment.

Maybe pay for an electrical check yourself if you want, and budget for a new fuse box once you move in. RCD ones are much safer. If a child sticks their fingers in a socket it will immediately cut the power, rather than electocuting them.

A rewire is likely needed simple but expensive.

Why would you assume that?

Our old fuse box had switches so a bit more modern than the wired ones but no RCDs so it may be one of those in the house, definitely worth getting it upgraded even if the rest is ok, we found that we couldn't have new sockets as ours didn't have the RCD, also much safer.

It may not need rewiring, just because the fuse box is dated, our wiring was fine, some houses still have old rubber wiring though, if this is the case it will definitely need rewiring.

The age, my house had lead encased wiring, that was a long time ago.

I'd reduce my offer to cover a new circuit board

A 50 yo house "shouldn't" have rubber wiring, a new consumer unit is peanuts.

But if the vendor is refusing a cheap EICR, then you have to ask yourself why?

I've always asked and paid myself, an electrical test, you can have a part EICR without the ticket to keep the price down, not to drive down the price but because i want to know what i'm buying and the costs.

No reasonable seller should refuse.

The odd thing is the vendor refusing to get it tested - although that is cheap and I would pay for that myself

OP I would assume that the vendors know full well that the house needs a full rewiring and would not pass a check by a qualify electrician.

Tell your solicitor to make it clear to them the unless they allow a check by an electrician:

-you will take out 6K from your offer (or more) to cover the cost of a full rewiring, because it might be that the whole thing, not just the circuit board, needs updating

-if they refuse to lower the price, you will walk away.

The CF need to be challenged.

That does not make sense, Surveyors do not comment on electrics but always advise you to get a professional.

Our surveyor this time went and put a little device (with a red and green light) in each plug socket and turned it on to make sure they all worked which is far more than I have come across before or expected. It still says how we need a professional electrician to check because they don't.

is there 'green goo' oozing from any plug sockets? if there is the dreaded green goo you need an urgent re-wire as the system is melting and if not you do not. Most rewires are not actually 'needed' but precautionary. Wiring can be 100 years old and work absolutely fine.

Replacement board only costs about £500 its not a big job you can knock money off for.

Yours must have been a much older house. Lead encased wiring was long gone by the 1970s when the OPs prospective purchase was built. It would have had pvc wiring from new.

I think getting your own EICR is a good idea given it is pretty cheap.

A 50 year old fuse box almost certainly won't be up to the latest regs. Whether it needs replacing or not is another issue.

As other people point out, rewiring is the biggie, which may run into 10K+. Fuse box replacement is normally a couple of K max.

It is amazing how cavalier some people can be re electrical safety.

As a vendor I'd refuse to pay for an EICR because all surveys are the buyers responsibility. As long as you pay for your own, I'm sure they'll allow access.

Thanks everyone for your advice. The vendor has now agreed that we can send our own electrician in to complete a safety inspection.

Bear in mind that all the electricity providers are currently updating and replacing meters for free so worth asking vendor who their provider is

Remind them to do a quote on the work at the same time. Then you at least get a rough idea of how much its going to be.

They will probably do one anyway, but worth being sure.

Yes, ask for a quote of how much it's going to cost. Not great, having something like that unexpected, but if it's likely to be a long term home, you shouldn't have to worry about any electrical problems for years (we had a couple of serious problems in our old house and wasn't easy to get someone to drop everything). Lovely new electrics here that might see us out our lifetime! Our new neighbour has just had a rewire, and said the impact wasn't as bad as she thought.