Opening up this staircase

[marshartist]

Hi there, looking at a house to buy but the staircase is an issue and we wondered if it could be opened up at all, with say wooden rails etc instead? It’s currently very narrow and claustrophobic as the landing is also narrow between the bedrooms. But the stairs also then lead up to a loft bedroom, so perhaps it is supporting those stairs. And then they run behind a kitchen wall on the ground floor. If it could be opened up how much do these things generally cost??
thank you for your help!

If you alter stairs they have to comply with the current building regulations which is often impossible in old houses.

As above. Depends also if it is classed as a bedroom (habitable) or just an attic room. The regs will be a bit more lenient for the latter. Based on a fairly recent quote for something similar (to replace steep attic stairs with a double winder), I'd say about 8k. You will also need the input of a structural engineer (1k?).

Sorry, I misunderstood what you were asking, you just want the wall opened up, not a new staircase? That would be much easier/cheaper if allowed but again you need to check regs. They may be enclosed for fire safety.

you might be able to put an internal window in the wall beside the stair (with glass) to get more light in. but taking down the wall can cause problems for building regs in relation to fire safety.

thanks- not a new staircase, just opening up the wall(s). Something like this picture…Obviously yes would have to comply with building regs… so I guess the only way of knowing would be to get someone in to look at it and confirm if it is allowed, do-able, and if so how much money it would be…

And a window might be ok alternative I guess, yes… again, if allowed re regs

If relatively recent and it goes up to another third floor bedroom the likelihood is that it's enclosed to meet fire regs. You can get fire rated glass but would need to check that the local council would be happy with that as a solution. If you use an independent building control inspector they can be a bit more flexible (still within the rules but sometimes more willing to consider unconventional options).

I think it may have been done about 40 years ago- but I’m not sure really as the house is originally from late 1800s, but has had things done to it - extension, loft conversion…so I don’t know when the stairs up to loft were done exactly and do whether they’re like that for fire regs now…

Those look like supporting walls. It would have all sorts of implications for building regs too. I’m sure there might be a solution but it would be £££.

the configuration isn’t that uncommon, you see it on lots of older houses. Is it really not something you could live with?

Yes of course could live with it- it’s only because it makes the very narrow landing/corridor between the bedrooms feel even more narrow, and we have three children so it might become a bit congested up there at bedtimes and so on, ha.
however I’m also nervous that the loft conversion itself doesn’t comply with regs either, as there’s no landing (doors though at top and bottom of the stairs)… it’s potentially a can of worms, as it’s not changed hands for decades… I don’t mind redecorating and some DIY stuff and maybe spending some money on altering a few things if needed… We are viewing it for a second time this weekend, as my partner likes it and the area, but I’m trying to be the pragmatic one…based on previous experience, I feel that it won’t be viable, but that we wouldn’t know for sure until we spent a lot of money on a survey…

If the loft conversion was done more than 10 years ago then it doesn't need a building regs certificate. What are your worries about it?

I personally wouldn't be bothered about narrow stairs and hallways. You and your children will learn to live with them, or be prepared to commit to spending a lot of money and put up with the stress of building work.

I wouldn't open the staircase up. I have an open one and it not great for keeping heat where you want it to be. Ideally I would like to shut off the cold ground floor in winter, but that is impossible because of the open staircase.

Is it a brick wall or stud partition?
( though @GasPanic makes a great point to consider )

We did something similar - and as they were leading up to attic rooms (not a loft conversion) we had to have building regs approval. What we put in was safe than what was their before - it's also put loads of light into the house as we put a velux in at the top too....

How much did it cost roughly?

Ah ok re regs if more than 10 years ago. I wasn’t sure of the cut off for that.. there is no ‘landing’ at the top of the stairs outside the room. No smoke alarm we can see- so obv that would have to be done…

Not a brick wall. It is hollow.. other than supporting studs I guess yes

Can't really say how much it cost, it was part of a much bigger refurb...we had to put in a new staircase as well.

But if it's just opening up - it wouldn't be loads....

As well as structural soundness, one other thing to consider if you do go ahead is that fire regs would recommend additional smoke detectors/fire rated doors.

so for example, as I understand it with loft conversions currently, having the type of staircase you show you like would require:

either a smoke detector in every room (apart from bathrooms)
OR
A smoke detector in the hallway/landing area of each floor, in the kitchen and fire rather doors on all room (apart from bathroom)

I believe if you have open plan on the ground floor there will be additional requirements such as a misting system.

I am not an electrician/ fire regs expert but this is my understanding as an administrator for building company