Where would you pick as your commuter town if...?

[Se10wonderings]

...as a couple you worked in Westminster and Soho, each 2-3 days a week.

...you had two children, a boy and a girl, who you hope will be bright enough for grammar school but who knows at this stage!

...your budget was maybe £1.1m, give or take.

...you valued the diversity and dynamism of London i.e. would prefer not to live somewhere particularly conservative, either with a small or a capital C, and indeed one of you grew up in London so can't quite fathom what life looks like beyond!

We constantly muse about leaving London for the usual mixture of reasons around 'wouldn't it be nice to have a bit more space?' and 'the secondary school situation looks ropy'. But we always fall down on not having a particular part of the country that we've always been drawn to as 'the dream'. And in the meantime we love where we are!

Both of our jobs are very London-centric so I think we'd need to really fall in love with a radically different place if we were to move beyond commuter-ville. But within the commuter belt we struggle to narrow it down. We don't particularly need to live in one direction out of London, though I guess east might be trickiest for work. And given how spoiled we are with our commutes now I don't think either of us would want much more than 1.5 hours of travel either end of the day.

Current house is a four-bed terrace so it's not like we're bursting at the seams, would just like to have a bit more garden and ideally some luxuries like a separate office and a utility room.

Essex and Buckinghamshire have grammars, Hertfordshire and Bedfordshire don't. I'm not familiar with other counties.

If you love where you live now is it really worth moving for a utility room? Commutes are expensive from both a time and money perspective.

Yes, this is a big part of our oscillating! A garden would be amazing though, we just have a yard at the moment. And, although we're a few years off applying, our secondary school options look very limited.

St Albans? Hitchin? Canterbury?

If you've got ideas of sending the kids to grammar schools, that's going to majorly limit the areas that you can consider so it would make most sense to start by selecting towns with grammars and good commuting links to London and then seeing how much more narrowing down you need to do.

Where are family and friends?

Kent also have grammar schools.

All over! Friends in Brighton, south London suburbs, Guildford, Reading, Oxford, St Albans, plus some in London for the long haul. Family both slightly north and very north of London.

Be really honest with yourselves are your kids likely to get into grammar school, as otherwise you could uproot the family for no reason (like my neighbour-Tonbridge in Kent)

Should perhaps have said that we're not wedded to grammar - more than in an area with grammar schools we'd hope they'd have a decent chance of getting in. Good state schools would be great too. The problem currently is that we're only in realistic catchment for one secondary which we have concerns about (and of course things can change etc etc).

Exactly! Who knows really, we're a good few years off applying. Certainly it would be foolish to move somewhere based on the assumption it's a dead cert. We both went to decent comps and would be more than happy with that for our children.

We moved out from SW London to a Surrey commuter town with about the same house budget at the point that one of our DC’s was starting secondary school. Been here about 6 years now.

Pros
No longer living cheek by jowl in a terrace has been bliss - quiet and no feckin BBQ’s all summer from the gazillion neighbours who surrounded us
Schools good (not grammar) and kids have easy access to outdoor stuff that would be a pain to access in London
Slow commuter train (1 hour) but regular access to London (i commute 2-3 days a week and always have a seat)
Surrounded by great countryside, close to airports and London, 45 mins to the coast - feels like best of both worlds

Cons
Seriously dull at times compared to our old buzzy London suburb 🤣. High street like a ghost town from 5pm!
Do a lot more driving and now thinking we need a second car - buses in our town shit (think 1 an hour)

Bigger garden absolute pain in the arse - just more housework but outside (DONT move for a bigger garden - over rated!!)

On balance it was the right thing to do for the kids re: schools, hobbies and generally being “safe and well”

Kingston? Could try for Tiffin & Sutton grammars then but competition is off the charts.

Sidcup? Chislehurst?

Quite a few people who want grammar head for south London for Tiffin entry. Surbiton, that sort of direction. Tiffin for boys and girls is insanely competitive by all accounts. There are some good grammar schools in Orpington and Bromley but girls only I think.
It's not unusual for London kids to take the train to school in the City too so while I understand the desire for a garden it may be feasible to stay quite central. You will certainly have far more school options at a high level in London than outside where if you miss entry for a top school the next one down may be a significant way off. If you look at school league tables it's quite clear that London schools by and large achieve higher grades and have more funding.

A friends son goes right across south London on the train for school, she was super nervous in his first week in Year 7. For commute - heading into Waterloo seems the best bet for Soho/Westminster. It is also worth bearing in mind that if you change jobs or are suddenly required to be in the office more, a daily commute from Brighton or Tunbridge Wells might be a right pain.
The education boards might be a good idea to haunt for a bit.

Why exactly are you attracted to Grammar schools? If you are moving for schools, most decent areas have excellent state schools with lots of opportunities. And without the nightmare stressful multi year build up to the 11 plus. We moved out of London to commuterville and specifically avoided Grammar counties.

Some good state options in Kingston too

I think you should just stay in London, if you all love it. Contrary to what some people would have you believe, it's a great place for kids to grow up.

Three days a week as a long commute can be pretty intense. I used to do 90 minutes each way and didn’t realise quite how much it was impacting me and my wellbeing (because it just seemed normal, at the time) until I didn’t have to do it any more - particularly since it isn’t just the journey time, it’s the logistics around it. You’ve a healthy budget for a lot of pretty nice areas of London and outskirts, including some of the leafier areas where you’d get more garden (especially if you go south east.)

I think it’s really worth tallying up the benefits of what you’re looking for with the drawbacks: health and wellbeing is priceless for you and the DC - especially as your current situation isn’t that you can’t afford a big enough house in a nice enough area close enough to your current commitments.

I’m writing this from my SE23 garden, basking in the sunshine of my 30 metre garden, having left the office half an hour ago. I wouldn’t swap this for the world, now.

Bigger garden absolute pain in the arse - just more housework but outside (DONT move for a bigger garden - over rated!!)

Amen to this😭

and indeed one of you grew up in London so can't quite fathom what life looks like beyond!

we are both Londoners & can't imagine living elsewhere tbh.

And given how spoiled we are with our commutes now I don't think either of us would want much more than 1.5 hours of travel either end of the day.

You will potentially struggle with this because even in London it can take an hour door to
door.

I've just spotted your user name. Not sure I'd be in a huge hurry to leave such a leafy part of London.

SE London - Townley Grammar School for girls, Bexley, Chislehurst and Sidcup, Dartford Grammar, St Olaves Orpington. Newstead Wood School. Quite a lot of spots but you'd have to research to see if it's catchment and selective or just selective. You'll be into the hell that is the 11+ though.

In the other direction - Colchester has several grammars which are some of the best schools in the country and it's about 30 mins from Liverpool St. which with the Eliz and central line should be fairly painless.

I would stay where you are.
Don’t underestimate the commute.
You love where you are and aren’t drawn to any other area.