£800K houses in nice but not uber desirable areas of the north

[Fibrous]

I live in a nice enough but not particularly trendy area not a million miles from Manchester. It's not Trafford or Cheshire or any of the traditionally expensive areas surrounding Manchester. There are loads of houses on the market around the £800K mark and upwards. These are older houses, beautiful, but not necessarily modernised.

I'm just wondering who can afford these houses? They seem to be sitting on the market for ages - so maybe that answers my question. But my DP and I are on fairly good (well above average) professional wages with no kids, and we can't justify the massive mortgages on them or the modernisation costs. All of our friends are dual income professionals with good jobs (medics, engineers, business owners etc), and none of them are buying anything more than about £500K.

Are these houses now just out of people's price range, or who are they for? We had an influx of Londoners cashing in and moving up in covid but that was a brief spurt.

Is this the same elsewhere in the country?

Looking at the sale history for some that are on sale for about 900K, they last sold for about 200K twenty years ago. That sounds infinitely more affordable!

Uni profs? Remote workers?

We could only afford our 700k house because my husband's small company was bought out by a bigger one, so he cashed in, was able to pay off our previous mortgage and so get a much smaller mortgage on our new property.

You often need far more than just being in a 'decent job'.

Yeah that makes sense. There just seems to be an awful lot of these houses on the market as a proportion, so I don't know if the demand for them and the prices they command is there anymore? Maybe there are enough people who sell businesses or come into a decent inheritance to sustain that market.

And we're not talking about massive country piles here, we're talking about four bed detached with a garden. I just had a look and of the 30 houses for sale, 10 of them are above 700K. And all except one have been on since last year.

I am not in the market for any of these houses - we were looking for a two bed with a decent garden on a quiet road - but the amount of these kind of houses stuck on rightmove just made me wonder if these houses used to be attainable for the average professional families and now they aren't.

People who buy them will have equity, inheritance etc, they won't be paying anything like the purchase price with a mortgage.

Plus that type of house is likely to be less desirable than it was because they cost a fortune to run, so the price will probably reduce when sellers are motivated and have to sell.

As for 'who are they for' traditionally a lot of them were probably mill owners residences, vicarages etc.

I'm, guessing you're thinking about houses like this but sadly there are no interior photos or brochure. I suspect it's a total refurb job that will cost ££££s, especially as it will likely be listed.

I live in a similar area, in a house that we paid £270k for a decade ago which we spent c £140k extending and is now worth £800k+ due solely to crazy house price inflation.

No way could DH and I afford an £800k house “from scratch” despite having a high income, but due to the equity we have we could buy one if we wanted to move. A house round the corner from us went on the market at a rather ambitious £1.4m, it was gradually reduced to £1.2m but still didn’t sell because anyone who has that kind of money wouldn’t be buying that house on that road.

There are plenty in the 750/800k+ bracket that generally languish for ages on the market but some do sell.

Yeah I think when renovating was more affordable, these houses would've been more attractive, but I suspect the price points don't accurate reflect maintenance and running costs anymore.

So yeah, lots of languishing and slow reduction in price over months/years until actually motivated to sell except for the really desirable ones.

This house is a reasonable example. https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/154297979#/?channel=RES_BUY

Listed for £695K last year. Been reduced to £680K. However, it only sold for £354K in 2020.

The people who afford them do so on inheritance or on moving from more expensive areas

I agree with the other posters that inheritance/gifts from wealthy families and equity from buying many years ago are far more relevant in terms of affording expensive homes than incomes nowadays. It's a huge social problem because younger people are just giving up and not bothering.
However, as you say, these sort of houses are not selling at present, which would suggest that the asking prices are far too high for the current market and would need to be lowered if the sellers really want to sell. The sort of houses that you describe (probate properties/ homes owned by older vendors who haven't spent anything on them in decades) are languishing particularly because the cost of work has risen so much, making them even less affordable. I think we are going to have a significant decrease in house prices (and the stock market, etc) over time, probably the next few years. The bubble has become too excessive so too few people can pay the prices, especially with everything else having risen a lot too and the economy in/entering a recession. The one you have linked is an example of sellers expecting a ridiculous gain in value over a short time.

I'm in a similar area but north of Manchester. Good commuter links and some very gorgeous old houses. There's been a few houses around the £800k mark on for over a year, never got to STC stage even. Some are new builds others Edwardian or Victorian with a few late 20c builds.

The only person I know who recently bought a property like this is an accountant married to another accountant with an inheritance as well. They bought just under £500k 4 years ago and now on the market at £600k but no interest in 8 months. What might have been just about doable 3 years ago is off the table now in terms of mortgages and affordability.

We inherited a fair old sum last year and paid off our mortgage. We wanted to fully own the house rather than move again to a bigger place and still owe. We are well located in a four bed two reception detached so no need for more space and I'd rather have the peace of mind we have no mortgage than a older more beautiful character property and mortgage

I'm not sure what your question is really?? Have property prices increased everywhere? Yes they have surely you realise that?

My own house has increased by about 40% since 2019 - Partially because I had to completely gut the place - but partly because of the increase in value in that time.

Where I live (SW) the property you linked to would probably sell for even more - possibly £750-&850k?? It mentioned in the details it has been improved over recent years - and now has planning permission for a detached annex - so of course that will increase the value - plus the normal increase in property values in the last 5 years.

I wouldn't imagine this property type would appeal to first time buyers - so anyone buying it would likely have some equity from a previous property that they're selling. So the whole amount wont be on a mortgage.

From my experience (personal plus friends and family), either

• purchasers in their 50s who have equity from an existing property do it’s just a swap or an extra £100k or so
• or young professionals on circa £100k each (law/finance/consultancy/medicine)

It’s an interesting point as agree 2 good salaries still often won’t cover a huge mortgage. I think it’s a combination of inheritance or people who have large equity (ie bought pre the big property price rises).

for example DH and I have good incomes in London but due to our age bought our first flat about 8 years ago on the peak of the market (prior owners made about 200k on it in 2 years due to the fast price rises) when we sold we made 15k on it in 4 years 🤣

I don’t even think 2 x 100k salaries covers large mortgages these days - especially if you have to pay childcare costs for 2 kids (c 40k a year in London) to earn that salary.

I agree with the inheritance point. There are also some people who list at silly prices just to see a what If game and aren’t that fussed about selling but if someone did pay their crazy asking price they would sell

I agree. Only those with salaries several hundred thousand in law, finance, management consultancy type roles can afford house at 800k without equity/ inheritance/ a large gift of £ when you take childcare costs into account. Not possible in medicine without these things.

I agree with you @Givemethesun that some people are just testing the water/ wasting people's time with silly asking prices. I do think that there is a large group who are simply delusional though, egged on my similar estate agents.

Are these houses now just out of people's price range, or who are they for? was my rambling question.

Nothing to do with first time buyers - I'm talking about two well earning professionals looking to move up the ladder. My example above would've been affordable for a couple with kids in 2020, but now, it's not. And adding on planning permission to a house that's already beyond the budget of most people, doesn't really add on value. So who is the buyer for these houses?

But yeah it seems like you need to have inheritance these days to get these properties. Is there enough inheritance to go around to keep these houses at their price tags or will we see a big drop?

I have no skin in the game, I have neither inheritance coming my way nor a need for a big property (although I would like to move but not to something like this). I'm just intrigued as to what is going on in the market.

I understand these prices don't look massive in the south, but for comparison, when I last bought my three bed ten years ago, it was £160k, so it's difficult to adjust.

Your question was perfectly clear. The answer is that there are very few buyers at these prices, hence these house not selling and prices slowly falling. I've already given my opinion on your other question.
They are still high prices for the South and 800k is even well above the average London property price.

You don’t buy that house as your first house. So they aren’t paying that.

That jump is ridiculous though on the house you posted!

We have earnt little more than minimum wage averaged over the years. Yet have c. 60% equity in a 600k house now in mid 30s.

We didn’t pay anything like 400k for that equity! We bought shit houses with good bones, polished some turds, did well out of the market jump and timing of stamp duty exemptions. Did well with crypto in 2021and took a crazy risk by bunging our next house deposit in.

Lived in garages with newborns, had paper blinds 😂 It’s been a fun journey!

Currently renovating a beauty. 2500sq ft detached. My kitchen is 800ft and all glazed. It is a stunner. Yet we have run out of money to finish although thankfully most building work is done. I am on maternity so funds are super tight but been making an absolute bomb on vinted selling everything from empty boxes to half opened packs of maternity pads. People literally buy anything it’s incredible. So thankfully that’s slowly funding continued progress. It’s also made me feel slightly sick that I have spent full price for things over the years when some stuff on their is practically brand new.

Some people are just very savvy. I can’t get on with being a savvy saver. I do find it easy to create/ increase value so focus on that.

Is that house really typical, OP? I live in a fairly expensive bit of the north and that would be taking the absolute piss at that price (and that price rise) around here. The laminate isn’t even laid well!

I’m in the south and there are plenty of decent houses in decent areas, at a much lower price than £800K.

Typical, probably not, but there are a lot like that on the market. It didn't take me long ( 2 minutes) to find that example. But as I said early on, a third of the housing stock in the area I was looking at was 700K plus, and we're not in a particularly affluent area.

There are plenty of houses on estates and things that are more reasonably priced, but I think they have a clear market, whereas I don't think these type of houses do anymore.

@Geneticsbunny

i love the suggestion of university professors … they get paid about £80k! Not mansion pay

I’d expect something lovely for 800k. And that’s what you’d get where I am. Those houses often take a while to sell as the pool is much smaller but they eventually do, because they are desirable houses for people with the money to spend. I agree with you that it’s hard to see who is spending that money on houses like that. (And I lived in London for 20 years so am totally innured to houses at high prices as a concept.)

I was about to ask if you lived in Marple!!
I guess people aren't buying them if they've been on the market for so long. There's houses in a similar price bracket near my parents that need renovating (old people who've moved out) and they aren't shifting, even in very popular areas for schools and manchester commuters. I think people are nervous about interest rates and don't have the resources to do the renovations required. Or the cost of renovations means it's more economical to buy a house that's already had the work done.
These are the types of houses my parent's generation bought in their early 30's with a growing family, but salaries haven't risen at the same rate as property prices and most people of that age group don't have that sort of money nowadays.