Plumber taking the piss

[Justsaywhatyoumean123]

I recently had a 2m x 2m bathroom installed, but as work progressed, they uncovered rotten floor joists and a dodgy ceiling. So, they replaced the joists, re-laid the floor, and re-boarded the ceiling. They also built a 2m-wide, 2.8m-high stud wall.
Now I’ve been handed the bill, and some of the charges have me questioning everything:

• 10 plastic buckets – £18 (why so many?!)
• 28 HardieBacker sheets – £720 (seriously??)
• 420 HardieBacker screws – £140
• Tile cutter – £70 (why am I buying their tools?)
• **Erbauer Multi-Material Holesaw – another tool I’m paying for??)

Am I being taken for a ride here, or is this normal?

Didn’t you get a quote beforehand before agreeing to get it done?

No, I forgot and they'd done previous work for me quite well so stupidly trusted them

I'd ask for the buckets and tools to be left!

I don't know what the hardie stuff is but the extra work you mention won't have been cheap, so that doesn't look so bad but buying tools does if they aren't leaving them and that's their full price and not a hire charge.

Still intrigued by the buckets! Last time I saw that many was when it was hammering it with rain and Newquay airports roof was failing!

Are you sure the tools arent rental.

I've had something similar happen to me on a much smaller scale OP, except I got him to quote me verbally as he identified issues. I'm now being invoiced £250 for him to put up a mirror vs the £80 he originally stated (it's big and heavy). I've gone back to the person who recommended him to ask them to mediate as I don't want to see the thieving bastard again. You have my sympathies. Definitely challenge the builders on the various things you're not happy with.

I think they might have got a the decimal point in the wrong place for the screws. They're about £14 for 100 which still seems expensive to me.
https://www.tilemountain.co.uk/32mm-screws-for-walls
The boards are about £12 each

OMG, these two were like the smiling assassins of DIY. Absolutely horrendous but very 'nice' when they were there. They’ve charged me for 30 days at £350 per day. I’ve received two other quotes, both for 15 days at £250 per day, but unfortunately those builders were busy and I got these clowns.
Honestly, these guys mixed a load of adhesive in a bucket and then threw the bucket away x10 with a sponge stuck in it.
HardieBacker is cement board, and the sheets were 2m x 1mish. How they managed to use 28 sheets for a tiny bathroom is beyond me. I feel like I was just paying for their "van stock" collection.

I would definitely question those buckets and tools. Check the purchase prices first to make sure that's what they're invoicing you for and insist on having the tools if the idiots won't budge.

The labour rate (which always seems expensive) is to cover their overheads including tools to do the job.

Yeah i don't know why i'm being billed for grout sponges, expanding foam guns, (hmmm ok) buckets and tile cutters. It's making me question everything, that and they haven't even added it up correctly.

At least its in sufficient detail you can.pull it apart amd get a change made.

Easier than if it said

Materials for mending floor and ceiling £1200

They sound ridiculous. Generally a good rough estimate is half the costs for labour and half the cost for materials.
They are clearly taking the piss but that might help you to work out how much. I hope the total isn't over £10,000!

Thank you for the support, MN! This whole experience has been a nightmare. They ran 7 weeks over schedule, which delayed my whole project and cost me in the long term. Now they're trying to charge me £2,500 for materials (even though I provided the tiles and suite) and 30 days of labour for £10k.
Absolute piss-take. Classic situation—two of them, one of me, and I felt intimidated, so I just wanted it finished. In hindsight, I wish I’d kicked them off the job.

30 days seems unreasonable. Question everything.

The most expensive Hardiebacker board I found was £21 for a 2x1m sheet. So even if they managed to use 28 boards (how?) that's £588. Also definitely overpriced on the screws. You should not be paying for their tools.
Price up their invoice using William Wilson and Plumb Centre prices. Or even Screwfix. Should give a more realistic total & something to come back at them with.

Also work out how many days they were actually with you for labour costs. Daily or hourly rate should be listed on invoice. If some days they were only there for a few hours, then that should not be charged as a full day.

1. Ask them for their receipts
2. Ask them what the dimensions of the Hardie backer boards they used were (should be listed on the receipt as well) and to explain why they needed that many boards for your bathroom

explain that you are happy to pay for any materials that are documented (receipts and sensible explanation) and any drill bits, saw blades as they will use them up cutting and drilling. But the tools themselves are capital purchases and you wont be paying for them and would expect them to take them on to their next job. Buckets..well they are the grey zone, but a receipt should sort out the over payment per item.

make sure you check the dates on the receipts and dont pay for anything that was bought weeks before or after your job

no receipts, no payment from you…

They were unfortunately with me for 34 days
Here is a snippet of their breakdown, at £350 per day

Day 1 – Strip out old bathroom & stud walls
Day 2 – Plan, measure and mark out new bathroom design
Day 3 – Hack off lime render (discover damaged brick structure)
Day 4 – Re-build badly damaged brick structure around window
Day 5 – Re-build badly damaged brick structure around window

@SeaToSki they've given me receipts and they fit in with the timelines but i can't fathom how they've used 28 cement boards 1200x800x6mm in a 2mx2m bathroom. There are endless and endless bits of pipe and junctions and connectors. Some white gloss paint that i can't see has been applied anywhere. They didn't even paint it for that price.

£35 p/h is quite normal for trades where I am. So £350 is 5hrs each man per day.
But 30 days sounds excessive for the job, especially with 2 of them, even with unexpected problems - brick work.
Did they quote a timescale? Even being generous I would have thought 10 days more than enough.
Did they "forget" you had already purchased the suite & tiles and charged you for those?

They used 6mm boards? The stuff I found at £20 was 12mm. And that was B&Q!

It honestly sounds like they've billed you for supplies they're going to use elsewhere.

£350 labour per day isn't excessive for two (but you could query the number of days)
Expect to pay for consumables - so tile cutter blades, tool hire etc.
Don't necessarily expect consumables to be at cost price (in the same way you don't expect to go to the local shop and not pay a mark up on whatever you buy)
Query the quantity of screws, boards, buckets etc.

Gosh they sound awful.

I don't know if this is the norm but my plumber when he did a new shower quoted for the whole job, and that was the agreed fee.
He invoiced for half up front and other half once complete and satisfied. The machinery and buckets and whatever else he used were his own or hired I believe.
There were no extra costs added on once the quote had been agreed on right at the start. He over ordered the tiles a bit but left them here for 'spares'.
£350 per day for two men isn't excessive, but only if you've agreed to a day rate as opposed to paying for the whole job.

I would withhold any payment above the original agreed quote. Any increases on that cost need to be agreed and there should be written or verbal proof of this agreement, either a recording or a text. Else he can't legally demand it I don't think.

Another thought about the buckets - quick drying tile adhesive goes off really quickly! If washing the buckets out wasn't an option (as they were refitting a bathroom so no water) maybe that accounts for the excessive quantity?

If they only used the cement boards on the 4 walls, that’s 2 x 2.8 x 4 = 22 m2.
Each board is .96 m2. You have to remove the door and window, but lose some in cuts. If they used it on the floor then it’s not inconceivable to see how they got to 28 boards.
Regards the price, they most likely use a builders merchant, they won’t shop for the cheapest price. Plus it’s perfectly normal to add a mark up.