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Planning permission to include 3 traveller pitches…

145 replies

MrsALS · 02/03/2025 18:29

If you were living close by (circa 0.5 miles) to a new build development that included 3 permanent traveller pitches would you be worried?
Local planning has just been approved.
On one hand 0.5 miles isn’t on our doorstep, 3 pitches isn’t huge, and I’m guessing a permanent site as part of a wider new development is better than a temporary, illegal site. But on the other hand I can’t help but be nervous, particularly the impact on resale value.
Can I have opinions please?

OP posts:
Wendolino · 03/03/2025 12:21

ThejoyofNC · 03/03/2025 10:29

I've obviously completely misunderstood your post, apologies.

I hope you can see why I'm so defensive.

Yes, I am guessing you're a gypsy

OhHellolittleone · 03/03/2025 12:50

ThejoyofNC · 03/03/2025 10:29

I've obviously completely misunderstood your post, apologies.

I hope you can see why I'm so defensive.

I’m so sorry it seems to be that people are able to be racist towards you. I’ve complained about this thread and been told it’s not ‘against guidelines’ and it’s best to ‘challenge
views’. Hate speech is illegal and I can’t see how this form of racist isn’t ’hate Speech’, but ok mumsnet…!

Mischance · 03/03/2025 13:21

ThejoyofNC · 03/03/2025 10:38

Are you aware that both are lumped in together by society? So you actually don't know which one it is. Someone somewhere decided to use traveller as an "umbrella" term for two entirely different groups. It's a huge source of frustration.

In fact it is far more than 2 groups. There are Gypsies and Travellers of all kinds, English, Irish, Welsh, Romany, New Age.

Badbadbunny · 03/03/2025 13:24

JoyousEagle · 02/03/2025 19:28

Realistically I think prejudice against travellers is still fairly widespread so I think it probably would affect resale.

Usually for good reasons!

Mischance · 03/03/2025 13:24

Ifr you want to know more about the community go to: https://www.travellerstimes.org.uk/

I used to co-ordinate this and was the picture editor many moons ago.

StarDolphins · 03/03/2025 13:27

I would be worried it would effect resale yes.

thbuojhnbvxznb · 03/03/2025 13:30

ComtesseDeSpair · 03/03/2025 11:39

I don’t think it is about racism. My parents had a group of New Age travellers illegally pitch up on the recreation ground close to their house. The locals’ complaints were nothing to do with race, I think they were all from some form of white British or European background. Likewise I have friends who live on canal boats - the legal way, paying for fixed moorings and utility facilities and being a part of the river community. They have constant problems with so called “river pirates” - boaters who travel around, pitch up illegally and damage the riverbank, don’t want to pay for trash disposal or sewerage or heating fuel so dump their rubbish and toilet waste in the river, and steal wood and coal from settled pitches. That’s not about race, that’s about itinerant and semi-itinerant people who choose to live around the margins of society, choose not to mix much outside their own community, and see themselves and their culture as a step apart from the settled community, lacking respect for the people and land within the settled community and not seeing its laws or mores as applying to them. Most people don’t care what racial group they belong to, they just care when it’s at odds with the laws which guide the way of life the rest of us are expected to conform to.

So much sense in this comment. Thank you. MN has some wonderfully articulate people at times!

roundaboutthehillsareshining · 03/03/2025 13:33

ComtesseDeSpair · 03/03/2025 11:39

I don’t think it is about racism. My parents had a group of New Age travellers illegally pitch up on the recreation ground close to their house. The locals’ complaints were nothing to do with race, I think they were all from some form of white British or European background. Likewise I have friends who live on canal boats - the legal way, paying for fixed moorings and utility facilities and being a part of the river community. They have constant problems with so called “river pirates” - boaters who travel around, pitch up illegally and damage the riverbank, don’t want to pay for trash disposal or sewerage or heating fuel so dump their rubbish and toilet waste in the river, and steal wood and coal from settled pitches. That’s not about race, that’s about itinerant and semi-itinerant people who choose to live around the margins of society, choose not to mix much outside their own community, and see themselves and their culture as a step apart from the settled community, lacking respect for the people and land within the settled community and not seeing its laws or mores as applying to them. Most people don’t care what racial group they belong to, they just care when it’s at odds with the laws which guide the way of life the rest of us are expected to conform to.

"New age travellers" aren't Travellers. Gypsy/Traveller is a race and the way that people think it's acceptable to speak about this race is disgusting, and demonstrates that racism is still very much alive, well and out in the open.....

Jeeekers · 03/03/2025 13:35

Across the Western World, there are increasing numbers of people living in caravans. (Mainly men) Say what you like but when there’s an area with bunch of caravans parked with no amenities- there are then transients living w no toilets, no showers … no fixed abode. It’s not good for the community. It’s the stuff of serial killers, paedos and criminals.
You can see the campers, if you are looking, along roads, development sights, farms across Spain, Portugal, France, UK and people saying “cost of living” - I can’t afford rent. IMO - it’s a decision to not pay rent, no council tax, no water bills. Use what others provide … the bathrooms at ASDA for washing, etc.

It’s not just Travellers any more.

Its the new world of low standards, no such thing as crime or property.

ComtesseDeSpair · 03/03/2025 13:37

roundaboutthehillsareshining · 03/03/2025 13:33

"New age travellers" aren't Travellers. Gypsy/Traveller is a race and the way that people think it's acceptable to speak about this race is disgusting, and demonstrates that racism is still very much alive, well and out in the open.....

Yes, that was my point. People dislike New Age travellers and use insulting terms for them when they behave badly just as much as they dislike gypsies and Irish travellers when they behave badly. They don’t dislike the former group less because they aren’t a race.

thbuojhnbvxznb · 03/03/2025 13:37

roundaboutthehillsareshining · 03/03/2025 13:33

"New age travellers" aren't Travellers. Gypsy/Traveller is a race and the way that people think it's acceptable to speak about this race is disgusting, and demonstrates that racism is still very much alive, well and out in the open.....

I think you missed the point. 'Boat pirates' aren't travellers either.

drspouse · 03/03/2025 13:39

There is a council travellers site near us and I had to search and search to even see it - it's very well landscaped. The families all go to one primary school and after a teenager from the community died by drowning they paid for swimming lessons every week for every KS2 child. I'm disappointed but not surprised to see all the racism on here.

oakleaffy · 03/03/2025 13:44

Mischance · 02/03/2025 18:51

I worked with Traveller communities for many years, and all I can say is that they are much like the rest of us: good'uns and bad'uns.

There is much that I disagreed with in their culture: not educating girls properly, early marriage, bare knuckle fighting.

There is much that I admired, above all else their strong sense of family loyalty.

There were people I met whom I had no desire to meet again, and those whom I counted as friends.

Many of the Traveller community are Christians and have a strong sense of morality and honesty.

A permanent Traveller site nearby would not be a problem to me. They are likely to keep themselves to themselves a bit, in the sense that they mainly socialise within their community, but many like to integrate into the local community.

I am sure there are Travellers on Mumsnet who can comment more knowledgeably than I.

Agree- Travellers are like the rest of us- some lovely ones, who dislike it when problem people move onto the site - Probably a proper site would be less trouble than a transient one .

oakleaffy · 03/03/2025 13:47

There was an illegal site with some very aggressive Travellers on it last year-
A huge number of vehicles- Stuff was damaged and crime occurred, but good members of the Traveller Community helped mend broken fences and other damage.

Dutchhouse14 · 03/03/2025 13:49

I would be a bit concerned and it may well impact value of your home depending on how visible it is and how well the site is maintained, issues with rubbish, if it expands beyond approved numbers (which it almost certainly will)
There are two sites in surrounding area to us, one is for just one family permanently sited there, has lots of native hedging around it, fully enclosed, not visible but looks very well maintained, park style home, paved brick driveway, iron gates etc, probably wouldn't realise it was a gypsy and traveller site.
Another one has expanded illegally, lots of caravans, not connected properly to mains services, lots of issues with rubbish, antisocial behaviour very untidy and an eyesore, blocking public footpaths etc council are useless at taking any enforcement action .

oakleaffy · 03/03/2025 13:51

ComtesseDeSpair · 03/03/2025 13:37

Yes, that was my point. People dislike New Age travellers and use insulting terms for them when they behave badly just as much as they dislike gypsies and Irish travellers when they behave badly. They don’t dislike the former group less because they aren’t a race.

Edited

New Age or Van dwellers definitely aren’t “ Travellers “ but people who can’t afford to live in, or who don’t want to live in a house or flat.

MalleusMaleficarumm · 03/03/2025 13:59

ohtowinthelottery · 02/03/2025 18:40

I live within 1/2 mile of a small traveller site and a much larger council one. The traveller children go to the village primary. Many of the dads have tree surgery businesses locally. They are all just part of the local community although they keep themselves to themselves mostly. Wouldn't bother me at all.

Any trouble caused around these parts is generally considered to be by transient traveller families who stop on car parks when passing through the area. Petty crime and littering seems to increase whenever there is a group nearby.

Same situation here, my daughter has an Irish traveller in her class and her parents are lovely people. It’s the ones that actually travel about who are the problem but the ones on the permanent sites nearby are no bother.

Not all travellers are bad OP, they are exactly the same as any other group in society.

BettyBardMacDonald · 03/03/2025 14:01

To answer your question, yes, it would put me off buying.

WeaselCheeks · 03/03/2025 14:27

I think a permanent encampment wouldn't see too much trouble - most issues tend to arise from the transient groups that illegally set up camp on private or public property.

I honestly used to be very much of the "live and let live, don't be prejudiced" mindset when I was younger, but every single large* illegal traveller encampment that's been set up in my area for the last ten years has brought inconvenience to local residents and businesses, a massive uptick in anti-social and criminal behaviours (ranging from theft, dine-and-dashing, harassment, vandalism, human faces), and a massive cost to the local council to clear the sites after the travellers have left (including having to bring in environmental health due to the human faces left everywhere).

My mate's business, a motorcycle training and company, had to close for nearly two weeks due to their paddock being broken into and the travellers setting up on it. Took the best part of a week to get them evicted, and another to get the site cleaned. The fuckers tried to break into the containers where the training bikes were stored as well, but fortunately failed (but it cost a bit to repair the damage).

So yeah, those travellers get fuck all sympathy from me - they revel in their lawbreaking and disrespect of the communities they inflict themselves upon, and seemingly don't give a shit about the reputation they give their entire community (because, like it or not, if people keep having the same experiences every time travellers come to town, they are going to draw their own conclusions).

I'd like to think that the travellers who stick to authorised sites are completely different, but I'd definitely think twice about buying a property near one though.

  • I will say that the much smaller Romany encampments (in the traditional caravans) that occasionally pop up on the roadside never seem to cause any trouble.
Christwosheds · 03/03/2025 19:10

Georgyporky · 03/03/2025 10:33

We're discussing Travellers, not Gypsies.
We had both in my previous village, they are very different.

Gypsies are Romani. Travellers are what were called Irish Tinkers when I was little, as they travelled around working as tinkers (mending pots and pans etc)

Marcipix · 03/03/2025 19:14

Absolutely would not buy there, based on family experience (not rumour and assumptions, before I am accused)

lizzyBennet08 · 03/03/2025 19:30

No way would I purchase so near to a traveller site. It may badly devalue your property depending on how things go.

Georgyporky · 03/03/2025 19:31

Christwosheds · 03/03/2025 19:10

Gypsies are Romani. Travellers are what were called Irish Tinkers when I was little, as they travelled around working as tinkers (mending pots and pans etc)

Erm, yes.

Not sure what you're trying to tell me that I don't already know ?

sparebooks · 03/03/2025 19:40

Wouldn't be bothered. We live within 1/2 mile of a large permanent traveller pitch and it's not a problem except - some litter issues on the road it's situated on and also the kids are enrolled in the local primary but don't attend much.

You'll occasionally see the men heading to the local shop in a pony and trap but otherwise they seem to keep themselves to themselves.

BobbyBiscuits · 03/03/2025 19:52

I would be concerned that there would be more theft, asb, dangerous driving etc in the surrounding areas of the sites.
It probably does sound racist which I know is vile. My family are Irish and I have an Irish passport. But it's the truth that I'd be a bit apprehensive of buying very close to sizeable travellers areas.

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