Neighbours wants to put scaffolding on our property

[TubeScreamer]

Our neighbours are doing a lot of work on their house. As part of this they would like to put scaffolding on our property. This is apparently necessary to access their roof. They will also use it to paint the side of their house at the same time.

Ahead of meeting with them to discuss it, what should we be asking of them to protect ourselves and our property? We would like something in writing and evidence of insurance? Is it the scaffolder’s insurance or the builders’ insurance that is relevant, or both?

This is a big project on a 3 storey listed building, and our property is also listed. We won’t say no to it, but the whole thing is going to be a real nuisance for us for some time. The scaffolding will remove our parking, create lots of noise and dust, and the work takes place outside of dh’s office window.

I am keen to learn from other people’s experiences, particularly bad ones!

Neighbours are fine but we are not close and relationship with their builders are already poor. Work has been going on for months and they have shown such a lack of respect for us so far, and caused a lot of damage in our garden. The neighbours themselves are not living in the property at the moment.

Personally, I'd be getting a couple of webcams from my windows sills directed at the outbuilding - don't hide them, let them see the green/red LED lights so that they know you're recording them. It may just make them take more care. It's what I do these days when there are workmen on our near our property. Only last year, some tree fellers dropped a huge limb from a neighbour's tree right onto our fence. Completely ignored the broken fence and drove away. I told the neighbour who contacted them and they claimed "not us gov!". Only when I showed the neighbour the video recording, did the neighbour get the tree firm to replace the broken fence panel!

Remove your parking? No sorry we want to access our parking. There will be another way it will just be more expensive and hard for them

Will you be home just in case the scaffolders try to come in your side?

To all posters....RTFT, the OP has vanquished the forces of evil

That doesn't mean they won't try...

I was aiming that at the oeople who are still saying "what about your parking" and other pre vanqishment advice

Working from home tomorrow

I’d be tempted to say to your neighbours “thanks again for letting us know you’re putting the scaffolding on your side. We did speak to our insurers, but the premium would have gone up so much, we wouldn’t have been able to move forward anyway. They did advise us to let you know that the owner is responsible for any damage to property mess on our property from the building work, so you might want to ensure you have insurance in place, or have at least spoken to your builders, so that they take care and clean up afterwards”.

They should put dust sheets down and offer to clean up but that might involve them leaning over from your side. Their insurance should cover any damage to your property.

Hopefully no scaffolding has gone up on your drive today.

Was at a friends on Thursday and scaffolders were removing scaffolding that had been in place to fit new windows to flats. Flinging the poles to the ground instead of climbing even halfway down the ladder When one narrowly missed the roof of my friends car we had to ask them to watch what they were doing

I would have recorded it and sent it to the Health & Safety Executive & the Council

My own LA have taken action against Scaffolders doing this in public places where scaffolding licences are required

we allowed scaffolding on the front garden of our last house for a house being renovated next door, which was terraced. we didn't have any parking to sacrifice and the builders were o.k, very pleasant and considerate, so we had no major concerns and it all went well.

However, if i were in your position, already experiencing hassle from builders I would give a flat 'NO' - you're not obliged to facilitate them, and you can explain your concerns are due to the grief you've already experienced. It may make the owner sit up and take notice and offer some compensation for past grief, or at least be forced to understand your position. Good luck!

Hope all is well OP

I have an update.

Scaffolders arrived yesterday and put scaffolding up to access the roof from the neighbour’s side! Seems it was possible after all.

Last weekend I cleared all the crap that their builders had left in our garden - 5 compost sack’s worth - and popped it over their wall for them to dispose of. I messaged to advise them (and did word it as all the crap your builders left behind in our garden …) rather than being too passive aggressive about it all. They said they are struggling to move it to their skip because it is so heavy. Genuinely baffled as to why they don’t ask the builders to do it for them.

Thanks for the update and ha ha about the rubbish. You must be a superhero if you can lift the rubbish over the wall and they can't get it to the skip. Once again, I hope the "oh don't be so mean" and the "The law says you have to let them" contingents are reading this!
As a general comment, I learned many years ago that in such circumstances, its much easier to start from a "no" then move to a yes if you need to/decide to, than it is to deal with the consequences of starting from a "yes"

If I were your neighbour I would have been mortified that my builders had created so much mess/damage! Good for you for making it very clear to them what the builders have ‘achieved’. And hope the rest of the work goes without any more inconvenience to you.

I have learnt that they do not care two hoots about us. I would be mortified if I’d upset neighbours (although possibly not these ones).

Sadly, not a superhero. The garden wall between us is very low from our side but high from theirs. There is a pile of breeze blocks next to the wall, so it was relatively easy for me to lift it over and dump it there. They, however, might need to get a ladder out to remove the crap.

I think you may be able to charge, even if you have to agree. There's been a quite a bit about this on here over the years. II think you may only have to give access if is necessary maintenance, perhaps you don't have to for extras like extensions? And I'm not sure that you have to allow scaff. I think I'd consult a solicitor, given the workmen have already overstepped the mark.
Within the family we have allowed neighbours' scaff, but they were good neighbours and the workmen were fine. It did hang round for a good while though, the job just took a lot longer than expected (they usually do...). But the scaff was only just on the property, so it really wasn't a big deal.

New neighbours have no respect as i am a single pensioner. I would have agreed to let them put up scaffolding so they could put on new roof but they didn't ask when I mentioned that my guttering is now leaking they said they would fix it but they didn't. They built extension and broke concrete path down side of house in my garden builders came into my garden put their building materials in it without permission when I complained they were threatening I told neighbour I wasn't happy he basically said then move. They still haven't fixed my concrete path

Unfortunately the world has gone too much to, Me, Me, Me culture with poor upbringing and attitudes built in. I don't think the law has kept pace and really needs updating to stop people treating over others.

Probably too late in your case either way but for reference for others if it's for New Build work, extensions, etc you have the right to refuse permission for scaffolding, etc. on your land. However, there is very little recourse to stop them erecting scaffolding on your land unless you can shut them out altogether and even that may come with them claiming they can't get access for maintenance so possible legal issues there.

While you can take legal action to the civil courts that might run into thousands or even tens of thousands in legal costs, etc for yourself even if you win. In the meantime they may have erected the scaffolding anyway and done what they wished. In court you probably won't get any significant settlement with financial award to yourself, you might not even get any aside from small sums if small amount of damage is done. It's incredibly bad but some people are so arrogant these days and self centred/self entitled.

That leaves the Police, often they won't get involved as they see it as civil matter. However under the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act (PCSCA) 2022 if you can show that it is causing you significant distress, damage, etc then possibly there is a chance of them intervening and charges for trespass. No guarantees there though.

So trespass is really an area that should be enforced more strongly by law to put an end to all these ongoings I feel. That we're living in a society still where the law hasn't cleared all this up is unbelievable.

I personally would always say no as although it risks kicking off a dispute there's an off chance they might decide not to anyway, although most scaffolders probably know that your options are limited. Also, if you say yes then you could leave yourself wide open and if you agree to terms they may try to get one over you there and take the pee and do all sorts on your land and say that you have agreed to it.

So up to you or anyone else what they do, none of this is supposed to consistute legal advice or a course of action. Some may advise overwise on this or feel what I said is inaccurate but it's how I see the situation from my perspective.

Yes, too late for me but I took the advice of MN and said no, and was very glad that I did. They found a perfectly acceptable alternative solution on their own land and the scaffolding was in place for 6 months, not the few weeks they suggested to us (and not because we had made life slightly more difficult for them).

Wow 6 months! Well done OP.

I followed this thread with detached interest at the time. Then in autumn a CF builder knocked on saying NDN was having work done and he’d need to use my garden for scaffolding, as though it was a given and he was doing me a favour by letting me know (the scaffolding was on its way at this point)!

Armed with the information I’d gleaned from this thread I told him to submit his proposals in writing as the Party Wall Act would apply. He went off not very happy and I locked all access gates.

Glory be, the scaffolding arrived the next morning and they were able to erect it without access to my land. Needless to say it was in situ for a lot longer than CF builder had said.

This proved to be the most useful thread I’ve ever seen on MN, and it’s a high bar at times. Thanks to @TubeScreamer and all who contributed.

It's a good thread. However as far as I am aware the Party Wall Act applying doesn't mean that they have to agree to a Party Wall Agreement being written up. Neighbours/Scaffolders/Builders won't like it as they won't want to pay for the Solicitors & Land Surveyors needed to investigate and write up the Party Wall Agreement. So they will view it negatively as in this case as they stated because of the cost. I think in the case of TubeScreamer they took it as him being difficult that it pretty much equalled a no in their view. I think in general it looks like they wanted a 'yes' so they could offload the responsibility if any damage was done to TubeScreamer's listed property as that would cost a lot of money, probably way more than most everyday property. So it being a bit more difficult to do the scaffolding on their side became a not as difficult an issue as a 'no' or a Party Wall Agreement. So I think in some cases saying no or stating a Party Wall Agreement may help some, in others it won't probably where risk of high value damage is minimal or non existent in my opinion.

So far looking into this for those not in the position of TubeScreamer or pariswindow where you can lock access or scare them off by stating the Party Wall Act to show that you could be difficult then it looks like it could amount to this if you still want to try and stop them. Basically if you took them to court (civil action) then although the courts often don't award any substantial payout if your neighbour/tradesman loses a case of trespass then commonly they have to pay your legal costs as well as theirs. That could be quite substantial say, £20k, £30k, £40k, etc on rack side so for them possibly £40k, £60k, £80k, etc for example, exact figures could vary widely of course. You have to make sure they are definitely on your land as of course if you lost then you could end up having to pay so I would suggest that you make sure your case can't possibly end up being in question by any means.

Some neighbours may back off on being faced with that, others may not so it may depend on if you wish to put up with the court/solicitor ordeal and all the waffle and bother that goes with it. Again up to the reader and this is by no means legal advice just potential avenues to possibly explore.