Thoughts on this house please!

[Acapulco12]

Hi all, I’ll be going for a second viewing of this house soon and am considering perhaps putting in an offer, recognising it needs quite a bit of work: https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/156480986.

What sort of offer do you think would be reasonable? I was thinking £530k (10% under the current £600k asking price). A house on the same road in a similar condition was sold in Sept 2023 for £480k.

In terms of updating the property, how would you approach that?

I was considering extending the dining room outwards so it’s at the same level as the kitchen and then knocking through the kitchen/dining room dividing wall to create a kitchen/diner and also adding in a utility room., and putting in bifold doors leading out onto the garden.

After that, I’d like to update the upstairs - renovate the bathroom and update the bedrooms (new carpets etc and decoration). I’m also thinking of putting in a downstairs loo and turning the porch into an outdoor one, rather than indoor.

And eventually perhaps doing a loft extension, although I wouldn’t need that for at least the next 5 years, as I’m buying on my own and don’t have kids, although would like kids at some point.

EDIT: the house is the one on the left hand side, without the driveway, in the photo.

I live not too far and an extension like you would like would be upward of a 100k in the area just for the shell, plastering with doors and windows.
No kitchen or tiling etc. I know as we were looking into doing similar a couple of years ago.
But I agree with other posters, for the amount of work needed which isn't including the expensive surprises you're almost guaranteed to find, the asking price seem expensive.

I don’t know the area well at all, as I first visited on the day I viewed the house. My understanding is it’s an up and coming area that’s improved quite a bit in recent years but still has some way to go.

I agree this house seems quite expensive for the area, especially given the condition it’s in - I think that’s because it’s close to the station, cafes and shops (10 mins walk, which is the closest distance I’ve seen for all the houses I looked at the other day) and it’s on a relatively quiet road.

Proximity to the station and being on a quiet road are both really important to me and are also positive signs the house will grow in value over time, so that’s why I think it’s got potential.

100% agree. I definitely won’t offer more than £520k.

Looking at the sale prices of houses nearby, this one looks massively over priced. The last house sold in the road was less than 6 months ago, an end of terrace with garage for £525k. Previously in 2023 one and the same condition was £480k. No way the prices have gone up this much in a year or so.

I would be saying to the estate agent that you like the house but have concerns about the price and ask them how they valued it and what the comps are in the area.

A renovation will be hugely expensive and you don’t want to be in for over the ceiling price of the road.

• Boiler - how old. The radiators look quite dated so could be the boiler will need replacing fairly soon
• Roof condition
• insulation type in the loft (if any).

I used to live fairly near here… South Norwood is terrific for trains (from Norwood Junction), but has been up and coming since we moved there in the 35 years ago, and a few months ago still felt in the doldrums - and nearby central Croydon seemed to have deteriorated a lot over the last ten years.

If you want that part of London, SE19 (Upper Norwood/Crystal Palace) will still give access to Norwood Junction but will have better facilities at the CP triangle and generally be much nicer. There are also parts of SE25 that border SE19 (typically the other side of South Norwood Hill) that I think have more going for them than the Thornton Heath side of SNH where the linked house is.

It's a lot for it I think. I sold my 3 bed terrace in good condition close by, but nearer to CP, for not much over £500k 7 years ago and it's been back on a year ago (not sold and taken off again) for asking price of nearly £600k which is what we started at.

It is nice and near to the lake and the cafe there which does the most amazing peanut butter squares. I still miss them!

Thanks @GinToBegin ! This is really helpful. I agree with everything you’ve said in your post in terms of the fact S Norwood has historically been seen as an up and coming area… and still is 😂

As you know the area, I hope you don’t mind me asking for some advice! I’m not particularly wedded to S Norwood, but what attracted me to it when I started considering it a couple of months ago was it’s got really good transport links and is good for my commute (to Victoria/St James Park), and I liked it as an area when I went to visit a few days ago to see this house.

Having said that, I also agree that Croydon has gone downhill quite a bit, especially over the last few years, and it worries me that S Norwood isn’t too far away from there and overseen by Croydon council, who went bankrupt in 2020. That worries me not just in terms of impact on the local amenities and economy but also in terms of council tax, which could rise quite a lot in the next few years to cover the council’s debts. That is a big turn off, and I am hesitant about committing to the area by buying somewhere because of that.

In terms of looking more towards SE19, I think that’s a great idea. I don’t think I can afford it though, as my top priority is a house near good transport links (ie up to 10 mins walk from a train station), and I haven’t seen anything fitting that criteria when I’ve looked over the last couple of months. I know this time of year is lean pickings for the property market though!

Grateful if you can offer any advice as to where I can focus my search to find somewhere within easy reach of good transport links! I’ll continue looking over the next few months too, ofc. Thanks so much.

I live up the hill in CP and while I agree CP is much nicer, it's less well connected and you'll be glad of being so close to Norwood Jcn with its fast connections into town. You're also close to the lake there which is nicer than other parts of South Norwood so I wouldn't discount it or go paying substantially more to move up the hill. It's a decent basic house that you can add value to and if you like it then I'd go in fairly low as you've suggested. It does seem overpriced to me for the area. My mate got a doer upper in a grottier street near there for 450 a couple of years ago. I think I'd test the waters at 525 and take it from there. Save yourself enough to do it up.

£480k tops and subject to full structural survey which you MUST have done.

£600k is toppy for the condition and location. It's a tiny house and if you are extending the ground at the back for a big kitchen/living space and doing the loft, you will spend £300k including rewiring, replumbing, floors, windows, gutters, patio. If not extending it will easily absorb £120-£150k.

A good burglar alarm will be essential - sorry op.

This is very helpful - thanks so much! I was planning on putting in a burglar alarm wherever I end up living, and I had an idea that S Norwood can be a bit of a dodgy area, but I have to admit I’m now getting quite nervous. I’m not at all committed at this stage, so it’s very much a relief to get this sort of intel about the area now, which aligns with the sort of info I’ve been hearing about S Norwood already.

As a general comment, I’d be very grateful for all your thoughts on the best course of action here. On the plus side, I’m a first time buyer, so I’m lucky to be in a flexible and free position as I’m not looking to sell a place of my own. On the flipside, an absolute dealbreaker for me is I’m after a freehold house and I really need to be close to good transport links (at most 10 mins walk away) and would prefer not to go any further than zone 4 if possible, and my absolute top budget is £650k.

Any advice gratefully appreciated on whether I should stick with looking in S Norwood or whether there are better areas in budget I could consider? In terms of other areas I’ve looked at, I’ve been looking in Streatham Common for a good few years ago and I think I’m priced out of it unfortunately. And I currently live in Ealing in a house share and can’t afford it. Thanks!!

To be entirely honest, I wouldn't touch South Norwood/Mitcham, etc. I think you may be compromised if you must have a house within zone 4. However, I would venture a look at Sutton which is much under-rated and has excellent transport links. It has recently been rated as one if the best places to live. Another option would be Worcester Park, a few minutes by train to Wimbledon. Both, in my opinion, are good value.

I'm not sure whether Brentford might be worth a squint as you are on that side already.

I think you will have to compromise - either a flat within zone 3 or 4 or a house in zone 5 or 6.

Agree with posters above. I wanted to live in CP, couldn’t afford it so moved to Sydenham instead. I would avoid S Norwood too, it’s on the gritty side of gritty and has been up and coming (but still not nice) for years. If you need easy links to Victoria, what about Bromley or is that the wrong type of place/ vibe? Fast train is 19 mins I think.

Personally, for this type of property I would look out Penge / Elmers End way. South Norwood is not really up and coming. It is what is is and won't likely change much. It's best feature is the train station, which can get you into Victoria / London Bridge or to Gatwick or Brighton quickly.

Also, I'd question whether anywhere is up and coming right now. I may be wrong, but with the economy as it is, it's very hard for businesses to flourish presently. People just don't have the same disposable income they once had. So I would move into an area expecting it to stay the same for now. If I really wanted a place that might up and come, I'd target areas that are about to get new transport links as that can be transformative for an area. In fact, that's really what did it for Crystal Palace back when the Overground arrived.

Is this too far out op? Zone 6, trains to Victoria.
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/150618788#/?channel=RES_BUY

OP keep in mind that South Norwood is unusually good for for public transport in south London, but SE19 is good in its own right. Trains from CP (which I think is in zones 3 and 4) to Victoria and London Bridge, plus the Overground and a lot of buses from the bus station. There was talk of extending the tram service, but I suspect that’s on the Too Expensive pile now.

i don’t know the road, but this might me worth a look…
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/144454646

You could also take a look at Penge, which has two stations, but I don’t think is as good for facilities generally - it’s quite close to Beckenham, which is always popular. Personally, I always felt the best bits of Beckenham were overpriced, but there might still be relatively good deals to have around Clock House, Elmers End or Birkbeck, with the proviso that you’ll be that bit further out of London.

That's a nice location.

Agreed; although I don’t know the road, I recognise where it is, and I think it’s a good spot. And it looks a reasonable price, particularly when you compare it to this one in Gypsy Hill.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/141486317

It looks a great house to me. Don’t know the area or if it’s priced accordingly.

I think you can expect it would cost you approx £200k to get your house to the finish of that house. £75k for the loft and £100k for downstairs and £25k to renovate and update the rest of the house (bathroom, flooring, woodwork, plastering, decor).

So you’d need to get the current house you’re looking at for £500k which you won’t as 10% off £600k would be £540k.

Most people asking for £600k want at least £575k.

@Acapulco12 I just wanted to mention my feelings on the area as I'm a first time buyer, just moved in to our house in January having zero experience of the area (moved from NW3) and came solely based on budget and accessibility to London Bridge.

We looked at houses in SE25, but ended up slightly further down from Norwood Junction Station.
But, so far we are finding the commute via East Croydon to be very easy.
I walk (due to needing to do a child drop), partner uses tram.

The area isn't super pretty, and Croydon seems really run down, but we've not had any concerns safety wise (taking usual sensible precautions) and the transport links with trains, trams, buses and overground make other parts of London much more accessible than I first realised.

The specific house does look expensive for its size and condition, but I think the area is OK if you're not in the position to simply buy anywhere.

£450k max budget for us, so there's not many parts of London to choose from as we were actively avoiding any sort of leasehold or share scheme!

Good luck!

Personally I think it looks dated but not in bad order- unless you need loads more room I would look at maybe 60ks worth of work on windows, decorating throughout , new flooring throughout, maybe new boiler, bathroom update ,rewire, landscape garden etc -

If you offered around £520 you could probably get a lovely house for around £580 to £600

I don't see the point extending unless you needs to and spending maybe £100k on top and then pricing it over and above what you have spent , relative to area.

You would be fine in it beautifully done up with 2 small kids even and if they were older then I would move on!!

@Acapulco12 I would strongly caution against living in South Norwood unless you’re very familiar with the area and comfortable with it. We used to live there (7 years ago now, but from what I know it hasn’t changed much in that time) and you couldn’t pay me to move back.
I felt genuinely uncomfortable walking around, even in the daytime. Lots of unsavoury types hanging around, people openly dealing drugs in the street, balaclava-clad youths on quad bikes running people off the pavements and gang violence (someone was stabbed in the street outside our house).
I know I sound like a pearl-clutching Hyacinth Bucket but I’m really not like that. I’ve lived in Croydon proper and it was nowhere near as bad as SN.
If you do decide to look in SN, this house seems quite overpriced.

I think we can be confident that South Norwood is not going to 'up and come' anytime soon. The only reason to live there is Norwood Junction, and I'm not sure having a means of leaving an area is such a compelling draw in and of itself. As others have said, Croydon Council is bankrupt and forever trying to sell off assets to raise money. They have lurched from one harebrained scheme to another so expect public services in the area to decline rather than improve. This area borders different boroughs and the street you are in can make a big difference to services. That is keenly felt further up the hill in Crystal Palace where you can be in Lambeth, Southwark, Croydon or Bromley.

Given you currently rent in Ealing, I'd strongly suggest renting in Norwood or surrounding areas prior to buying. As you can only afford the cheaper parts, I think you need to familiarise yourself first. I still think you'd be better off a bit further out if you want to buy a freehold property with that budget.

Hi everyone, just wanted to say a huge thank you for your helpful comments on the house and the area it’s in. I’ve done quite a bit of research about the area and the house and still have reservations about it, and given I’m looking to buy, I think the fact I have reservations is not a good sign!

I’ve only visited South Norwood twice, to have a look around and see if I might look to live there. It seemed okay, but I realise I’ve only seen a small snapshot of what it’s like there.

I really want to avoid living in a dangerous area - insofar as that’s possible, given I want to live in London! - both for my safety and peace of mind and because I’m looking to have a family in the future, and I want my future kids to feel safe and comfortable where they live.

The other area I’m considering is the Colliers Wood/Tooting borders of Mitcham (I can’t afford Colliers Wood or Tooting proper). I’ve asked about that before on there, and had helpful replies, but curious to see how that compares with S Norwood?

What do you think about Mitcham/Tooting (e.g. close to Tooting station) as a potential area? I’ve heard mixed things, and granted it’s not a particularly amazing area. I went for a visit to see what it was like the other day though, and it seemed okay. It appeals to me though as it’s quite a bit more central than South Norwood and my reasoning is also that I have to start somewhere and get a base somewhere as a FTB in an area I like and I can then work up and progress from there (although I know that’s very hard to do!)