Buying house no building regs

[LSmith789]

Hi, so I’m buying a house, had survey done, want to complete before end March. My solicitor has told me they have no building regs for:

1. removal of a wall
2. chimney breast

Solicitor has asked that the Vendors get either Retrospective Building Regs Certificate OR A Certificate of Adequacy from a structural engineer. Vendors have refused. Solicitor has advised me to proceed with caution. WWYD?

Pull out of the sale.

I'd be hugely wary of that, it could be a very expensive nightmare if it's not structurally sound, and them refusing to prove it's fine is a red flag.

Yep. Pull out. Some minor building regs issues can be covered by indemnity insurance. This isn’t one of them.

Don't buy it.

I suspect the vendor knows that it is structurally unsound, which is why they won't pay for the Certificate, because it won't get one.

I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

Pull out of the purchase. (You never know, this might actually spur the vendor to get the appropriate certifications. Nobody in their right mind would buy their house without it.)

I agree, walk away.

There's no excuse for doing significant work like this and not following the proper process. Whatever money and time spent on this so far is gone, try to think of it that the money spent so far has saved you further pain.

If they're happy to do significant work without doing it properly, you're likely to have a few more unhappy surprises once you move in. It's disappointing, but I wouldn't trust the house even if they say they've fixed the issues.

I'd pull out. Some things not involving such significant structural changes you can safely get an indemnity for if there's no building regs but not this

I'd pull out. I had a very similar situation. I didn't pull out and got a structural survey instead. It identified there was a lack of structural support which showed indications of early movement and there would need to be at least six months of monitoring before it could be considered for sale. I was a poor first time buyer and really loved the house. I shouldn't have wasted the money on the fee but at least I didn't completely ruin my future which buying a house with ongoing movement probably would have. The agent and vendors both acted like it was no biggy and I was being dramatic. It sold ages later with significant repair work and at a much lower price

I know that’s an option BUT i searched for about 12 months to buy this house. If I pull out I might not find another for ages. Understand what you are all saying.
The chimney support in the loft in easily accessible, to see what the issue is. The wall decor would have to be disturbed to check the RSJ for the wall removal. I could get an engineer around myself ti check and issue cert? Maybe.

Pull out.

At best you won’t be able to sell on unless you get the certificate post-purchase, which could entail building work, putting in beams etc.
At worst it could collapse. On top of you.

I very much doubt you could get a mortgage without the certification or a structural engineers report saying it is sound anyway.

I think the alterations were done pre 1999, was the requirement for building regulations different then?

Ah yes @OnceMoreWithAttitude that was the other bit my solicitor said I wouldn't be able to go ahead anyway as the mortgage company wouldn't be prepared to lend. Meant to mention that in my post. @LSmith789 the house is worth loads less without the regs and could end up falling down! Worth some more hunting

The alterations may have been carried out many years ago. If you must proceed then I would reduce the offer by an amount that might cover any remedial work, assuming you are willing to put up with the disruption. Your conveyancer will flog you an indemnity, for what its worth.

If it was so long ago I can understand why the sellers are refusing. Did they buy after the alterations were done rather than they had the alterations done? If you love the house then pay for the structural engineer to survey and produce a report and also pay to make good afterwards.

If you're buying with a mortgage your solicitor is also representing the mortgage company so tell the sellers it's a requirement of the mortgage company or you can't proceed.

If the works were done over 25 years ago then getting certificates now is OTT for a sale and not surprised the sellers are refusing to do so. The build control team would be bemused being asked to do it this long after too. That long there's no worth to a indemnity policy either would be money to an insurer to provide cover for no risk as so far beyond enforcement period for any breach.

You have the option of getting structural advice, if you are keen on this house that is likely the most sensible next step but would be a cost to you but if it showed any issues it gives you something to discuss and haggle price on (assuming remedial works possible and you were happy to take those on)

Thank you all for your comments/help. I did get a level 3 survey done which is a structural survey I believe. This said that the chimney stack in the loft was supported only by timber and this would need to be replaced with steel, so I am aware of this but haven’t got a quote. The removal of wall was also mentioned but only in the context of getting the building regulations certificate for it.

Pull out. The fact the vendors aren't interested in putting this right is a huge red flag.

I would be surprised if they could sell it at all

Lack of building control sign off in itself isn’t a huge concern. Maybe the regulations were different back then. Or indemnity policies are available quite cheaply which cover you in case the council take enforcement action for lack of BC sign off.

The main concern is that you have no proof the work has been done properly with adequate support. Is anything likely to collapse in future? That’s why you need to get it checked properly.

If the seller won’t allow any retrospective checks / sign off, then you have to ask yourself what have they got to hide. I’d be pulling out in that case.

Thank you. I think it’s just that the Vendors don’t want to pay for certificates/sign off etc. They are splitting up so I’m not sure it that is making a difference,

If it was done 25 years ago then it’s fine. Thousands of houses have been knocked through before build regs became common. What about all the 1930’s semis knocked through in the 1970’s?
Try and get a discount for the chimney work, as that’s visible and should have a steel. It’s easy to justify. As for the downstairs rooms being knocked through, I doubt they will budge.

Depends on when the changes were made and if building regs were even needed.

One of our houses we sold had a large extension without building regs because it was not required.

We were asked for a copy of the building regs on sale but they did not apply and no certificate was needed.

The attic room was also a bedroom and did not need building regs when we purchased it as again it was before those regs came into effect.

Depending on the date and type of the alterations it may be wiser to have
a structural survey to get the full picture.

Do some research first

Thanks for those ideas Annony & HellsBells.

Does anyone know what year it became mandatory to get building regs for removal of wall & chimney breast? TIA.

I would say if the vendors won't supply building regs certificates (presumably because they know it won't get them), and given that the survey is literally telling you that the chimney breast is not considered to be structurally sound, I would proceed on the basis that this is work that MUST be done, get quotes and reduce the offer appropriately.
I am generally no fan of surveys and they often waste your time with scare tactics, but in this case your survey has identified something that is actually dangerous and that could lead to structural collapse.

Yes i was aware that the chimney needs rectifying as soon as i moved in, it’s just that I won’t know before I buy if the wall removal is structurally sound as previous people have said, the Vendors are unlikely to let me get a surveyor to damage internal walls to check.

If it was done pre 1999, and the house is still standing with no structural issues, I wouldn’t let this put me off.

One of our walls was taken down during an extension to open up the back of the house 30years ago, no planning. It’s solid and not a problem to anyone other than a solicitor. Our buyers got an indemnity insurance.