Landlord not returning deposit

[ElizabethDavid]

Hi there

I would like some advice regarding the non-return of my deposit please. I rented an apartment for exactly four years. After moving out the landlord refused to return my deposit and asked for cleaning, decorating, dry-cleaning costs etc. I moved in during a Covid lockdown. A check-in report was completed. I was not present and did not sign the report. It was emailed to me one month before moving out. The landlord says she sent it to the estate agency and they should have forwarded it to me. I have a screenshot of the tenant portal showing the document is not there and I did not receive the document via email. The matter has been referred to the tenant deposit scheme. There was a check-out report which I attended. This was sent to me after the landlord had made amendments. The landlord was not present at the check-out.

Does the check-in report have to be shown to the tenant? It was done a couple of days before I moved in and sent to me via email during my one-month notice period.

TIA

You lost any higher ground and have now committed a crime, if she wants she could now pursue you back and you could have to pay them back compensation for abuse and harassment, it might be especially easy for them to pursue as one is 'in the legal field' according to you... pat on the back, real smart.

I am surprised that a deduction was made for "professional" clean'. The 2019 Tenant Fees Act prohibits landlords from requiring tenants to pay for professional cleaning when checking out of the property.
If your DIY cleaning left the property in the same or better condition than the check in, then you should not have been required to pay for a subsequent "professional" clean.
I note however you refer to a "part charge", so it would appear the scheme accepted you failed to do something to an acceptable standard.

for future ref
the amount awarded is compensation to the LL for damage to their property. There is no legal requirement the LL evidences that money has actually been spent, it is possible for the LL to claim on the strength of a quote, not an invoice. The amount awarded is then down to the scheme or a court (if LL has refused to go to scheme arbitration) to decide.

You can be angry with someone without lowering yourself to make nasty comments.. it makes you look just as bad.

I'm glad you won, but perhaps dont lower yourself to the level of unscrupulous landlady sending nasty email.

You lose the upper hand by sending abusive emails

Abusive is probably too stronger word - I just informed them that they were liars and money obsessed.

The report stated that 'Under tenancy agreements, the property should be returned in the same state of cleanliness. The check-in report states that the property was professionally cleaned, while the check-out report states it had been domestically cleaned but required further professional cleaning'. That was for cleaning the walls in the kitchen. However, that fell under redecoration so the cleaning costs were reduced by £120. The rest of the deposit was returned to me.

Abusive is probably too stronger word - I just informed them that they were liars and money obsessed. The police would be totally disinterested. I agreed not to contact them if they agreed it would be the end of the matter. Pat on the back to me!

Spot the landlords on this thread!

I am not a LL, in fact part of my job involves helping Tenants get deposits returned but I think you sound somewhat unhinged
You won, get over it

Required further "professional" cleaning

that is verging on illegal wording. required further cleaning, would be OK, but inserting professional is illegal, Sadly though letting agents do not require any training or have to demonstrate any competent knowledge.

Simply stating professional versus domestic is not acceptable. Did you accep;t that the kitchen walls remained "dirtier" that at check in? How was that uncleanliness evidenced? Any photos, precise description of state of the wall at check in?
The law categorically requires the focus to be on standard attained, not who did it.
Had that been me I would have made a formal complaint to the protection scheme, see page 30...
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5f745d69d3bf7f287328e5a5/TenantFees_Act-_Tenant_Guidance.pdf

You cannot be required to use a particular company to clean the property. If the property is not left in a fit condition, landlords and agents can recover costs associated with returning the property to its original condition and/or carrying out necessary repairs by claiming against your tenancy deposit. You should ask your landlord or agent to justify their costs by providing suitable evidence (such as an independently produced inventory, receipts and invoices). If your tenancy deposit does not cover the costs of returning the property to its original condition, the landlord or agent may seek ‘damages’ from you and if you cannot reach agreement on the amount/nature of those costs, they could seek the payment from you by making an application to the courts. See the section on ‘damages’ for more information.

Fair enough but I wouldn’t be sinking to their level

I am a landlord and I endorse this analysis!

Thankfully it's quite hard for landlords to steal deposits nowadays. The starting point is that the money belongs to the tenant. If the landlord wants any of it the burden is on them to produce evidence to the protection scheme adjudicator showing that they're entitled. It's not for tenant to prove the reverse. Usually all a fraudulent landlord achieves is a delay in repayment (as here) which is annoying enough.

Surely these expenses are tax deductable business expenses for the landlord.

Yes but it's incredibly expensive to secure a decent cleaner at short notice. And yes of course it goes through the books, but it's increasingly difficult to make the figures stack up now in this environment which is why landlords have left in droves. The result is increased rents, but costs have gone through the roof in any case so not particularly helpful.

Do you seriously think the tenant deposit should only pay out the after tax relief net cost?
The cleaner still has to be paid 100% of their cost in cash no matter how much tax relief is given a year or so later when the tax return goes in.

I have just moved out of a flat after 6 years. I had the carpets professionally cleaned, redecorated at my own expense throughout (apart from the ceilings) to the same paint scheme/standard when I moved in. Landlady deducted £160.00 for new blinds which were rusted due to damp ( a systemic problem throughout the whole block) + more money for other minor expenses totalling £250.00 out of my deposit. I drove past last week to discover the flat was sold and no replacement blinds had been installed. It leaves a bad taste when Landlords clearly take the piss, she herself said we were model tenants!

You don't call women slags and slappers. It's sexist and shows your true colours. By all means, refer to the terrible actions they've taken, but you immediately lose sympathy when you lower yourself like that.

And FWIW, I'm really really sorry about your loss. It must have been a horrible, stressful, heartbreaking time for you. Hope you're okay.

But the landlord is not obliged to replace the blinds as the purpose of deductions from the deposit is to compensate them for their loss, not to replace.

Did you dispute the deductions with the relevant scheme?

To be honest, I was exhausted by the whole thing, so I didn't dispute it.

Ok. In most cases you simply request the return of your deposit from the scheme.

The landlord has the burden to supply sufficient proof to the scheme to convince them that they are entitled to claim some of your deposit money.

If you fail to claim the full deposit or dispute their claim, that's an easy win for them.

I've successfully had my full deposit returned from my previous 5 tenancies by immediately claiming the return of it from the scheme and disputing the LL claim.

If the LL had asked for a reasonable sum in the first place, like you, I wouldn't have contested as it isn't necessarily worth the aggravation and headspace. (I always would have agreed up to £200 without contesting it.) But when they dishonestly made exaggerated claims, I fought against it and won with evidence. (So glad to not be renting anymore.)

then with respect your comment is misleading and adds nothing.

Sorry what I see is a tenant who could not be bothered to use the system as it is intended, to support the underdog, aka the tenant.
Therefore you have no grounds for making out you are the victim of a landlord "taking the piss"

what you describe is very obviously wear and tear for which no deduction would be allowed by the scheme. Rust due to damp is never "damage" for which compensation would be due and certainly does not justify a new for old expense claim that makes no allowance for age of the item.

It is tenants who seek to blame others for their own inaction which is partly why letting property is such a minefield for both sides,

I hear you. My landlady/landlord did a mid-tenancy inspection visit and stated how they were happy with the standard of cleanliness etc. They offered me one of their other flats with a garden, They said that the previous tenant had caused damage to the floors and they were going through the TDS to recover their deposit. Alarm bells rang!

When I moved in there was a scummy set of mini-drawers in the bathroom. They looked like they were from The Pier circa 1990. The drawers were heavily stained inside - think spilt make-up, crushed eyeshadow, tanning lotion etc. However, they were handy for my products so I kept them. When I moved out they tried to raise this in the check-out report. The TDS accepedt their age. When they re-advertised the flat the drawers were still there!

A pair of grifters. During the tenancy I paid for a couple of items that were their responsibility - no offer of repayment. When I left the flat I took an old check-in report from 2013 which had been been given to me when I moved in. They were furious. The report showed that re-decoration had not been done since 2013. I offered to give the report back but they had to give me the money for the sundry items first. They paid up! I took a photocopy of the report and used it in evidence. Also, made them wait a couple of days for the document. Well, they made me wait for the check-our report.

They held my deposit in their bank account for four years. They received interest.

Fucked now though. I can see my old flat from my front door. Obviously any future tenants that come to look round will be warned...........Unfortunately, the flat sat empty for six months when I vacated it!

Thank you. Completing on a property and getting a knock on the door from the police on the same day was rather stressful. Plus arranging a funeral on my own as she was not married and lived several hours away by public transport. Up and down the country via train, working two jobs and organising a funeral was very hard.

I an not unhinged. Completing on a property on the same day you receive a knock on the door from the Old Bill to inform your only sibling has died is stressful. Then six months of filling out forms with the TDS when you are the sole survivor was hard.