London flats under £400k

[teafreedomoctopus]

These come up from time to time in London. Typically Victorian houses where the homeowner has converted the cellar into a standalone flat, then rents it out or sells it leasehold.

They have their own front door, but the bins may be stored in front of your window.

One I’ve been looking at has no service charge, and you have direct access to the large garden.

I suppose it could be okay, it depends how well you get on with the home owner who’ll also be your neighbour as well as being the freeholder. There’d be a risk of course if they sold up.

Also being a converted basement it’ll be a bit gloomy. Tolerable if the location makes up for it I suppose, and if you have full access to the garden.

Any thoughts?

No way. Check out the flood risk. Brian May was in the news when flash flooding by surface water or backed up sewers trashed his basement living space.

news.sky.com/story/queen-guitarist-brian-may-shares-footage-of-devastation-after-west-london-home-is-flooded-12354878

Thanks, Rollercoaster1920. Perhaps I should make clear though, I don’t mean properties where a basement has been excavated. Instead it’s Victorian houses where the cellar has been turned into a standalone flat. So they won’t have dug down below the water table. One downside therefore is that the ceilings are a bit low.

Here’s an example of what I mean:

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/155794910#/?channel=RES_BUY

Absolutely not. Aside from the leasehold issues, that flat you linked to is very dingy. Plus I would only ever live in top floor flats now after bad experiences with noise from above.

No. Unless that was my only option for staying In London. And if I absolutely couldn’t move out of London.

Whose responsibility is it to maintain the communal garden and fencing?

Depends on the lease. Once you have it it won't make much difference if they sell after you bought. But some lease have things like no singing or music. Check who's responsible for the roof- I own leasehold and am ground floor and within months of purchasing I was hit with £6k bill for my share of a new roof. Otherwise it's not so bad, as long as you abide by the lease they can't do anything any other neighbours could do to be difficult.

That said I'd never pay that much for essentially a studio flat! Wow London prices you can get 3 bedrooms for that where I live and the commute to London is 20min walk to the station then an hour on the train

Yes, I absolutely want to stay in inner London. I’m single and don’t anticipate that changing.
I want to stay somewhere walkable and where I don’t need a car.

This basement flat, and ones like it, will be below the main entrance, living and drawing room of the main house. So at least your bedroom won’t have another bedroom above it.

Also given that it’s on a hill, it may feel more ground floor than lower ground.

I’d rather live in an SW postcode than SE if possible and have up to £300k cash. Not looking for a mortgage.

Thanks for the advice!

That flat is perfectly located within the neighbourhood - facing a Victorian landscaped park - and someone will snap it up.

By contrast this one I wouldn’t go near - below other flats, close to the main road, and over priced:

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/144483647#/?channel=RES_BUY

Good question. Possibly the freeholder does it themselves, or pays for it. Which sounds good, but not so much if that’s because they really think of it as their garden, and don’t expect the leaseholder to make much use of it.

If the leaseholder wants to start planting tomatoes or making a rose garden etc I’m not sure how that’d go down.

But it could be just wonderful if you all get on well and have compatible expectations.

Presumably their house/part of the building also becomes subject to a lease as it is this which defines how you share maintenance costs and where boundaries are? In which case you need to be happy with the terms of your lease and it’s no different from
buying any other leasehold property. If they sell they would sell their lease and possibly the freehold along with it. Also, once you have owned the lease for two years (iirc) you have the right to buy a share of the freehold.

Personally I find basement flats quite cosy and would (and did!) happily live in one. We rented that one though which I think makes a difference. The situation you describe could be ideal (freeholder on site to deal with maintenance etc) but could also be a nightmare if you end up feeling you're living essentially in someone else's home.

So I have friends with this set up, they bought the flat that had the freehold. It works just like a regular leasehold flat, they also have lease but the clerical running of the building is up to them, like arranging the insurance.

We lived in a rented one in Chelsea and it was fantastic. I'd buy it if I could afford it- but sadly I can't .

How long is the leasehold?

112 years in this case.

I think it’s a great flat. I’ve lived in a basement before and it was a very cosy flat.
I’d convert the large kitchen into a bedroom. And put a smaller kitchen in the living area,. That would add value and be more practical.

This basement flat, and ones like it, will be below the main entrance, living and drawing room of the main house. So at least your bedroom won’t have another bedroom above it.

I’d disagree with this being a benefit. We owned a leasehold basement flat but above us was another flat and tbh it was a godsend that bedrooms were above bedrooms and living spaces above living spaces. Bedrooms tend to be quieter, so no worries about them staying up late in their living room when you’re trying to get an early night.

I’m not against leasehold, although our freeholder was a fucking charlatan company, and we bought the freehold with the other tenants before selling. And also not against basement flats as long as no damp issues etc - we loved ours. But with the one you linked to I’d be concerned about no access to your own private space - we had a patio garden that was just ours, lower down than the main garden. And I think owning a leasehold above the freeholder would be fine - as long as the leaseholder isn’t awful. But that’s true whether they live there or not. My main concern would be a sense of feeling like I’m living in a family’s basement, I’m not sure I’d have a sense of ownership despite having bought the place.

No. IMO, it kind of reads like you’re buying in for the pleasure of being their tenant.

Thanks for sharing your experience and I agree with your points.

Does one typically get to meet / communicate with the freeholder, when the vendor is the existing leaseholder? Or you just have to take their account of how things are, or more pertinently form your conclusion by what’s written in the lease?

It would be good to know if it’s possible to sublet the property if ever you’re away. And if it’s possible to have a pet cat or dog who’d make use of the garden.

It would of course also be useful to know if the main house is home to a large family, a retired couple, or even just one affluent single professional (it happens).

If I get a small mortgage I’d be able to get my budget up to £375k-£400k, which would give a lot more options in SW postcodes. More chance of capital growth, and bigger flats where I might also be able to get a lodger if I wanted. Something to consider - but that would slow me down and it’s tempting to just buy what I can buy now.

Yes that’s a good idea. Sleeping at the back is quieter, too, as you don’t hear the front door slam.

Actually at the moment it looks like there isn’t a washing machine (unless it’s hidden in a cupboard), and constant trips to the laundrette would be no fun - and neither would having to dry clothes in winter in a flat with little sunlight. There’d be more room for a washer-drier in the front room.

There might not be a soilpipe at the front of the house though. It looks like there’s just a rainwater downpipe. So possibly it just couldn’t be done.

Based on previous experience, no, not in a million years / ever again. Freeholder treated us like we were on a 6 month tenancy rather than 100 year leasehold and thought they could basically boss us around. They were not the ones who created the lease, they bought the freehold much later and really didn't understand the arrangement despite our patient and then less so efforts. Morons like this exist and can make your life hell. Hopefully you wouldn't get one, but you can never rule it out.

Just looking at SW flats, which don’t fit the title of this thread.

But - this one looks great? Why hasn’t it sold? 50sqm in Streatham, close to Tooting Bec Common. Maybe the garden is shared? Maybe a short lease or high service charge?:

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/154051832#/

Ooh, sorry to hear that happened to you! Did you at least find it straightforward to sell up?

The potential for a change in freeholder would definitely be a concern.

You’d also need a brass neck to make a lot of use out of the garden, which though notionally shared might well in reality be dominated by the freeholder and family.

Together with the lack of light from a basement flat I think I will pass on the idea. A pity because it does seem a good way to get to live in a neighbourhood that’s predominantly houses, and which otherwise would be out of reach.

@teafreedomoctopus the batshit freeholders were as difficult as possible about everything we needed their cooperation with to sell, net result one sale fell through because of them. We got there in the end but it was painful.