Subsidence or lintel failure - house purchase

[Cherryblossom1723]

We are looking at buying a 1920's property.
It's been sat empty since May 2022 and has been on the Market since December 2023. As it needs quite a bit of work doing it fits our budget. Usually we would have no chance with a property of this size.
After having another property purchase fall through we decided to look at this one.
It has so much potential and once done up could be amazing for our family, but we have a few niggles that we are unsure on.

We had a level 3 home buyers report done, which advised a structural engineer. Which we have done, but it's not really answered any questions.

The survey picked up a crack under 5mm (although I can presume only just under 5mm)
Under thYe bedroom window. The crack is also on the outside of the house.
The survey mentioned this is possibly due to lintel failure as this type of property doesn't have a lintel.
The structural engineer is undecided, he said he can't say either way if the house is or isn't effected by subsidence. He said usually he can say whether properties definitely are or not but this one has left him uncertain.

We are so unsure whether to go for the house now. We love it but we are also concerned if there is subsidence it may end up costing us a lot of money.

There is a large tree at the end of the drive, maybe 10metres away. The house survey puts it as not in close proximity though. The structural engineer has said to maybe check the drains for cracks but after doing two surveys already we're running out of funds until our sale goes through and we get the equity to use.

Could anyone give us any opinions on the cracks. Would you go for a property like this?

Thank you so much if you read this far.

We have been told that the geological map shows that the houses in the area are built on sand and rock, not clay.
Not sure if that's a good thing or not though

I'd say it's a good thing in terms of worrying about subsidence. Clay and silt soils are the ones most prone to subsidence because the shrink and swell depending on ground moisture conditions. This also means less risk of ground movement if you remove any trees. Sandy soils can cause subsidence, not by shrinking or swelling, but if they are 'washed away' by some kind of water leak, but this is less common.

@HoppyFish Any subsidence claims of nearby properties should show up in searches.
Interesting. Where would one look for this information?

If structural engineer can't rule out subsidence after inspecting the property I don't think anybody on here can. Personally, I wouldn't take the risk unless you got the property cheap enough to make it worthwhile to correct any building faults.

Oops... actually I think it's just subsidence claims relating to coal mines which show up searches. Probably not general claims. This is obtained from the Coal Authority. If your searches determine the property is on old mining ground, they may recommend a Coal Authority report. You'd have to check but I think the report would cover the condition of any nearby shafts, and the location of any nearby subsidence claims.

Thank you for this, helpful to no.

We went round and spoke to the neighbours yesterday who had nothing but positive things to say about the houses. Not that it means nothing is ever going to go wrong ofcourse.

We have said atleast we can see there is a few problems that need addressing with this property and we can plan accordingly. In the house we are in now the previous owner had just hidden things badly in order to sell, so then we had allaprts to put right over the 10 years we have been here.

I really appreciate everyone's input on this.

Thank you so much

Check that the building has insurance. We looked at a house that had had subsidence and it turned out that the owner could not get insurance as it had not been treated properly. That would have meant of course that we would not have been able to either!

It looks such a lovely house OP, I hope you go ahead .

as a structural engineer has already given a report which is "unsure" if there is existing subsidence, I doubt OP would now be able to get valid insurance for "existing" subsidence,

whatwouldyoudoifisangoutofkey · Yesterday 08:43
Is there buildings insurance in place ? When we bought in an area known for subsidence we were advised to stay with the existing insurers.
We had work done for subsidence and apart from a reasonable excess the cost was meet by insurance.
It looks like a lovely house , in your shoes I'd go ahead.
Ps are there any other similar houses in the vicinity that might give clues?
Tho I guess you'd have to knock and ask 🫤

as a structural engineer has already given a report which is "unsure" if there is existing subsidence, I doubt OP would now be able to get valid insurance for "existing" subsidence,

good point ,though I wasn't suggesting new insurance cover but asking whether insurance cover was still in place.

Can’t comment on the subsidence (except to say if neighbours don’t have issues I’d personally take that as a positive - and I’d leave the trees alone if it was me!).

However - I bought a 1920’s ex LA which was in a terrible state. Had to live in it as-is for a very, very long time (I couldn’t do any diy so as not to disturb the asbestos) but it gave me a good catchment area and a size garden I could never have done otherwise. Eventually I was able to replace the gas pipes, the electric wiring, all water pipes, put in a steel beam for a problem area, solve the sewage drain the previous owners had hidden in the kitchen, and then completely redo all the rooms including the kitchen, bathroom and add an en-suite. My kids and I lived here through all that as I couldn’t afford not to.

Everything needed doing BUT there is no way in the world I could have had a house as it currently is for the price I’ve spent (overall). If you go in with eyes wide open it can be quite a rewarding journey. There will also be a lot of tears though. If you’re not prepared for that then you need to walk away.

Just thought I’d add something else to put your mind at ease about subsidence. Subsidence is caused by below-ground movement. A crack in between a ground and first floor window can’t be caused by subsidence if there is no cracking lower down in the building. It sounds to me like the structural engineer might have been inexperienced in diagnosing subsidence. You would expect to get some better advice than simply saying they don’t know. I think they threw the subsidence comment in there just to protect themselves. So, don’t let it put you off the house. It isn’t subsidence. Also see my earlier comment about typical subsidence cracks and soul types. Hope it all goes well.

Thank you, we did wonder if it should go all the way to the ground.

We're aware the house is going to be a lot of work over the years which we can overcome. We just ofcourse don't want to buy something with the risk of subsidence.

We have spoke to the neighbours and they are all very happy and haven't had any issues.
The property is currently insured and their isn't any known subsidence in the area.
We spoke to the estate agents and they did say generally it comes up in the area that drain pipes need replacing as they are cracked but I'm guessing that is to be expected in properties over 100 years old.

Thank you for sharing about your home. Yes I'm sure we will have lots of tears along the way.
Like you though this is likely the only chance that we will get to buy a property of this size with such a huge garden. It will be a lot of work but hopefully worth it in the long run.
There will be no hurry for the children to leave when they have grown, which we like the idea of as who knows how expensive things will be once they are adults.

It was absolutely worth it for me, but I definitely had a few down times :)
I am also basically ‘keeping’ my children’s rooms - eldest is at first year uni but I can’t see how he can possibly hope to save when he finishes, with rental prices etc the way they are. They’ll always have the option of staying here if they need to.

There might have been a stone lintel or sil in originally with a wooden window, these look like replacement windows. Are there any houses on the street with original windows to compare? We had this in our renovation, again to get the house and plot we wanted. It took a lot of time, effort, money and discomfort but there is no other way we would have got somewhere else of the same size and type of location. Where wooden windows with stone sils and lintels had been taken out and replaced with UPVC we had these cracks and still have them now in places, in a minor way after the sils, lintels and wooden windows had been reinstated. If the brick work on the outside in the upper parts was separating more that is when I would be more concerned. Obviously I don't know for certain but from what I have seen this is more likely the issue than subsidance. I know of a house that cut down a big oak tree blaming it for such subsidance when in fact there was a drainage issue internally at the house causing the issue so it isn't always the trees.