Is this house going to fall down on me?

[SophiaCohle]

Hopefully I'll have managed to attach a pic of a house I'm thinking of buying, which shows the kitchen/dining room.

It seems fairly clear these were originally two separate rooms that have had a wall knocked down to open the space up. It may even be an outside wall, with the kitchen being a later addition.

Is it just me or does this look a bit dodgy? It seems to be two ?wooden beams supported by a column of bricks immediately beneath the join between them. I would have expected that an RSJ would be needed - am I right? And if I wanted to open it up completely (i.e. lose the brick column and the breakfast bar) would I need an RSJ then?

The whole house is a bit of a project and I don't mind that, but I don't want the place to collapse and also don't want to spend big money fixing old botches.

Would greatly appreciate anyone's thoughts.

It's just the old outside door and window that they have removed. It's fine it is likely to be supported by lintels above ( unless it's like ours with header bricks but it would probably have collapsed by now if it was).
If you want to remove the pillar you will need an RSJ
Ooh sorry edited to add that beam is there instead of an RSJ but I'd prefer it to extend a bit more each side.

I wouldn’t be buying that without a full survey.

I would want to know if that wall is weight bearing and if, as I suspect, it is, how the weight is being supported. Those two lintels don’t look that strong.

Yeah, definitely a full survey, though my experience is that surveys often hedge their bets to the point where they're not as useful as you'd hoped. Maybe a structural engineering report, though god knows what that would cost?

If I assume I might end up having an RSJ installed one way or another, does anyone know what I could expect to pay? I mean roughly? On a scale of £1K to £10K? (My scale doesn't go any higher than that, lol.)

Anyone else? Either an opinion or a ballpark figure?

I would avoid. I'm no expert but that lintel doesn't look long enough / the right size to give enough support.

I suspect it's been standing like that for a very long time already, and will still be standing like that for a long time in the future. We have a similar arrangement, but without the brick column, in our very old house, and I know of other houses with similar also. It's just how they were built several hundred years ago.

If you're going to be doing a lot of remodelling within the house, a structural engineer wouldn't be a bad idea. I had one who was incredibly knowledgeable and helpful. In the long run they could save you money by helping you avoid unnecessary work, stop you if your plans aren't practical or point out things that might be a problem in the future.

Unfortunately, it is so long ago that I can't remember the price but the fact I could afford it at that time suggests it wasn't too extortionate!

It looks like you have two timber beams there acting as a lintol, so no issues. Minimum end bearing for a lintol is 150mm which it looks like you have there both at either end, and at the ends over the column.

A lintol (or 2, dependent on wall depth), concrete or steel will be needed the whole length if you want to remove the column. More towards the £10k end if its two, somewhere around £5/6K if its one would be my estimate.

My concern here would be why is the house in this condition? Was it an elderly owner who passed? Was it someone else who planned to do it up and has found hidden costs they can’t afford? Hopefully a full survey would identify any issues should you proceed

How do you know there is no RSJ and to me the wooden beam just looks decorative.

If it is just the exterior door then they havent removed a wall as such have they? What was the layout before the kitchen was there?

Yes you will need RSJ’s (possibly two columns of bricks and an RSJ would be cheaper) to open up further. We paid about 3k for 2 RSJ’s, but that was 5 years ago. London-based. You will also need a structural surveyor to calculate the loads.

It’s only a short span and from what I can see, it looks fine to me.

Gaps in brick walls are largely self supporting. Lintels don’t take the full weight of the wall above them.

Thanks very much to everyone who's commented. A bit of a mix of views!

I don't know the whole story with the house but it seems to have been empty for some time and has various issues I already know about (damp, needs a rewire, new boiler etc). It's in an area that works for me, has more space than most of the places I can afford, and has a great deal of character. I've refurbed dilapidated character properties before and superficial awfulness doesn't bother me, but if it's liable to collapse around my ears that would be very bad obviously. It would be a home, not an investment fwiw, though if I moved on I would want to make money not lose it.

I haven't ruled it out but it does sound as though I need an expert opinion before I take things further.

If anyone has anything else to add, that'd be great. All opinions welcome. And thanks again to everyone on the thread.

Just to update, if anyone cares.

I went and had a closer look today, and one thing you can't see from the photo is that above the joint between the two beams there's a vertical crack in the wall. It is the original outside wall btw, so is definitely loadbearing.

I really like the house, it's just what I'm looking for and it feels right, so I'm going to go ahead with a survey and a structural engineer's report, and see what I'd be in for. I'll report back in case it's useful for anyone else passing this way in weeks, months or years to come.

Good luck, OP. If the house is right, the work is worth it.

We have an oak clad box around an RSJ in our L shaped kitchen extension (so no more than a multi pitched roof above) It is considerably heftier than the one you.

People did a lot of DIY electrics/plumbing/building in the 70's/80's.

@SophiaCohle good for you. Sometimes things are worth is when it has the right feeling for you. Plus u are taking the right steps with survey etc. best of luck! Looking forward to hearing how u get on, hopefully good news!