Configuration of terraced house

[TaupePanda]

I went to see a house on a street that we have always wanted to live on. It has an enormous garden by city standards and the advantage (we think) of being built in the 50s, to replace an old victorian terrace that was bomb damaged. This puts lots of people off, because its not quite the same look, but houses built in the 50s are much more sound structurally and I don't care about bath stone mullions and stuff like that, personally.

The big challenge is that, without building, the downstairs isn't quite what we'd want. But, the same can be said for many houses locally and we are absolutely wedded to the area - that is my number one priority. So, we know we'll have to make a compromise.

It is my opinion that the current kitchen isn't big enough to be a diner too - its just shy of 19 x 9 foot (according to my measurements today, with a tape).

What do people think to making that a family room? Would that be too long and narrow? We intend to have three bedrooms upstairs and then go into the loft to create a large spare / upstairs living where the TV would sit, so it wouldn't be the only reception space we have.

We would then move the kitchen into the existing back reception, and the existing front reception would be a dining space. This would be much better for larger groups of people - which is surprisingly frequent and something we really value in our current rental. We also have an upstairs TV room right now and love it - essentially, I think we would like to replicate our current living situation but it could turn out to be an £800k mistake.

The below is the floor plan - the room marked kitchen is the proposed family room. A side return isn't an option - I never think they look that great and I don't think it is worth paying £80k for. Thoughts?

Where is floor plan??

Yes we need the floor plan.

Though I always worry about people spending a lot of money on reconfiguring houses - will they get the money back when they sell? Most people like a living room in the traditional place not in a converted attic.

Might be better just to accept the kitchen is a bit of a compromise as not as big as you would like ideally, than spend £££ on reconfiguring a house. Money you might not get back.

Unless it’s a genuine fixer-upper or you’ve got money to burn my advice is always to buy the house that’s there, not some future version of it. Then live in it for a year while you get to know it and find out what you can live with and what absolutely has to change.

I like the idea of a family room in the attic, but you don’t need two family rooms. As there isn’t a floor plan I can’t tell exactly but two reception rooms usually include one that can be used as a formal dining room, if that’s your thing, and 19’ x 9’ is plenty big enough for a breakfast/ informal dining table.

My bad - I added the floorplan but somehow it got knocked out.

There is no way of living in the house before we buy - it's a cash only sale, as the building is unlivable. We'd have to stay in our current rental and do the place up to at least a minimum standard of having central heating and working electrics. In reality that means doing the kitchen and we don't want to have to redo it when we decide we don't like where it is.

If we don't move the kitchen, we'll use the front reception as a dining space and back part as a playroom. That probably means putting the wall back in and it starts to become a bit unappealing.

We can't build length ways unfortunately, as there is a public sewage access point just behind the existing kitchen and it can apparently be a total nightmare to have the water company come and move it. Which would involve digging up large parts of the garden - the only bit of the house not in dire condition.

Happened again - hopefully this time works...

I’d be tempted to fill in the side return with a glass roof extension to increase the size of the kitchen. Then you’ve got all that gorgeous reception/living space too

That floor plan would work well with the classic side return that gives you a big wide kitchen at the back, utility/loo/ study in the middle and snug / living room at the front.

An extra living room in the attic doesn't seem useful to me - people won't go up stairs just for tv and the come down two flights for a cup of tea. As an office or spare room that would work, but I'm not sure it helps as for living space.

And if you are spending lots of money, get a second bathroom in somehow

You’ve got a double reception room so I don’t see the issue of putting a dining table in the part closest to the kitchen? Sofas & TV in the other part. You could divide the room or keep it open plan depending on personal preference.

None of your options includes a sitting room. Our previous house had this layout and we just used the kitchen as a kitchen, the back of the knocked through reception as a dining area and the front bit as a sitting room. Toys were put away at the end of the day.

Honestly I think you’re over complicating it. If you want a bigger kitchen do a side return extension. If you really want a big entertaining space and you’ve got the money, do a side return extension, knock down the back wall of the existing house and re divide the front room. So you’ll have a sitting room (or family room) at the front and a lovely big kitchen diner at the back.

I know what you’re saying about the side return, but there’s a reason so many people do it. As per this house, the added value to the original space is far more than the 4/5 sqm headline - it completely transforms that back space and maxes out the footprint.

100% do a side return and keep the standard layout of sofas/ telly in the front, dining table in the middle and big kitchen with an island and a squashy sofa in the back/ new bit.

There was an episode of George Clarke's Old House, New Home where they did this. Might be worth taking a look. I think it's the one from Series 7 called Stroud and Wootton Bassett.

From memory the couple lived on a busy road so they moved the kitchen to the front of the house where they would notice the noise less, and the living room was where the former galley kitchen was. It looked beautiful but my only question was how they would watch TV. If you're not much of a TV watcher I suppose you could get a projector screen for the evenings, or as you've said, have a separate more casual family room upstairs for that. Then the ground floor room could be used more as a traditional reception room for receiving guests.

I've seen a couple of (Victorian) terraces in interior magazines recently where they have done exactly what you are proposing (I can't remember whether it was House and Garden or Living Etc though, sorry!)

We have the same layout with a similar size kitchen, so I had a think about it and discounted it for us, for the following reasons - our current kitchen is north facing and freezing at the best of times - fine for a kitchen, but I wouldn't want it for a family room. The rest of the house is much warmer as it is in the terrace part.

I also wasn't keen on having the kitchen in the main part of the house with cooking smells - my experience is you can never really tell how these things are going to 'flow' in a particular house/ conversion untill they are done and you are living there. I like having the kitchen separated off at the back of the house (this may just be from having lived with a kitchen/ diner/ living space for 15 years which I was over by the time we moved).

Large kitchen diners seem to be the fashion at the moment but fashions change. Personally I like like reception rooms. A few of my friends have taken space away from their living rooms to make big kitchen diners and the living room left is awful.
I can’t work out why the room on top of your kitchen is wider than the kitchen.

How big is your family and will it change? You mention a playroom so I assume you have at least one child.

I think it depends on your long term plans. If you’re aiming to stay there for many years, of course model it to suit yourselves. If realistically you’re likely to move again as part of your family plan, keep the future sale in mind.

A second floor living area would definitely not be for me - it’s just not practical to go up and down with drinks, for instance and my DH recently needed an op out of the blue which affected his mobility. So if I were to buy the house in the future, I’d be buying a house with a huge loft spare bedroom that’s rarely used and small living area to the front of the house which on viewing houses your table.

Could you use the limitations on extending as a bargaining chip?

Thing is, you’ll find it much easier to find a builder to do a classic side return extension. A project that involves moving a kitchen into a reception room, and all the reconfig of services that requires, is going to get a lot of builders refusing to take on the job as it has a much higher risk of going wrong.

Thanks all.

So, we measured the house with a tape measure on the day and the floor plan doesn't appear to be correct. It therefore looks like the upstairs is wider. But it's not.

We have 2 kids and they are quite young. A play room, which we have in our current rental, is an imperative. That would turn into a teen hang out in the future. So, we'd like it to be a separate space ie not attached to another room.

We have an upstairs living room / TV now, which we love. That is definitely something we want to emulate. We think a loft room, with an en suite, would work as a TV room / spare bedroom. We use our TV room as a workspace too, as well as a yoga space etc... it's basically just a place to go separate from the rest of the house for some peace.

We then want 3 beds -one will be an office for now while the boys share.

In an ideal world, we'd have a kitchen diner. Personally, I just don't think they're ever amazing for the price and you lose the direct sunlight into the room you're building across. I think people often do them because they have an existing set up that they are just extending. We have the opp to gut it completely and start again so we can be more creative.

I need to do some planning with regards to how rhe back room (current kictne) would work as a family room. But I think that's the ideal, unless I can come up with a better solution. Though we may not end up buying it - an offer 10% over asking is already on the table

I would take the kitchen down and replace it with an orangery style extension (move the sewer it's a expensive pain but so worth it) that becomes your dining room, you then have the kitchen in the middle and a sitting room/snug/playroom at the front. Gives you an easy sell as you haven't lost the space but works for what you want/need. The property brothers often do similar if you're after inspiration.

A much cheaper option would be to move the kitchen and then have a made to measure bench style dining table made for the kitchen (ours was 3k custom made) so you again keep a living space at the front with the bay

Sounds like you've bought into the fantasy of a lot of these programmes and social media about what a house should or must have

People live quite happily with the layout you have already, but if thats not for you, I would have thought the most practical and cost effective option is the side return but you dont want that

My view is the current kitchen is big enough for a kitchen diner setting, perhaps using the middle reception for a dining area with dressers for extra storage. Over time perhaps that becomes more of a teen hangout if you find the table isnt being used/dont have a table in there

I would view a tv/sitting room right at the top of the house impractical but you say you have this now and like it so it clearly works for you, i need to be near a kettle and snacks all the time personally.

With a full glass roof you wont lose that much light across the back room, is it south facing?

You might want to think about finding a way to fit in a downstairs loo.

As you say the garden is massive, can you extend the kitchen/downstairs family room a bit further out, rather than making it wider?

Have a friend with an almost identical dilemma. It really suited their lifestyle to have a living space in their case with bifold doors into the garden and the kitchen moved into the back reception space. But in the end they aren't moving the kitchen due to resale as both builder and EA cautioned against it. It may be worth asking the EAs opinion for your property/location. They are keeping the kitchen but extending down slightly into the garden so long thin room with diner at one end. The large living space will have folding doors where the wall use to be so can be one or two spaces.