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Original poster

House purchase - vendor has just died

54 replies

ILoveAnnaQuay · 17/10/2024 08:37

My DNiece (FTB) is in the process of buying her first home. The man who owns it is in a care home but his daughter has Power of Attorney and is dealing with the sale.

They were hoping to exchange by the end of the week but she has just been told that the owner sadly died at the weekend. Dniece has said her solicitor says this shouldn't affect the sale but surely that can't be right? I m sure it will now have to wait until Probate is granted. Has anyone ever been in this position?

OP posts:
DuckBee · 17/10/2024 08:41

Yes my grandma died. Hers was a simple will and probate took 10 days to come through so yes it will delay the sale as POA dies when the person dies.

StillAtTheRestaurant · 17/10/2024 08:42

Of course it's right if the daughter has POA. Why are you doubting the expert advice of a solicitor who deals with this sort of stuff frequently?

NewNameNumber43 · 17/10/2024 08:45

StillAtTheRestaurant · 17/10/2024 08:42

Of course it's right if the daughter has POA. Why are you doubting the expert advice of a solicitor who deals with this sort of stuff frequently?

Because power of attorney only lasts as long as the donor is alive and the daughter doesn’t have the right to act for her father once he’s dead unless she has probate?

NewNameNumber43 · 17/10/2024 08:47

OP - it is definitely worth your niece understanding more about why the solicitor has stated this - there will be a reason I’m sure but I’d definitely be asking the question.

Radiatorvalves · 17/10/2024 08:47

Not sure of the rules, but be aware that probate is taking months at the moment. Expect at least 6 months.

BloodyAdultDC · 17/10/2024 08:48

POA ceases upon death.

Your best bet is that the vendor died with a VERY simple and small estate and no will - my mum's paperwork came through within a couple of weeks of me sending it off and then I was in charge of the sale of her house.

Probate can take months.

sallyanne33 · 17/10/2024 09:11

I believe you can ask for probate to be expedited if someone dies mid-sale of a property so shouldn't be the usual 6 months+.

OnlyFrench · 17/10/2024 09:13

Radiatorvalves · 17/10/2024 08:47

Not sure of the rules, but be aware that probate is taking months at the moment. Expect at least 6 months.

Just had one back in two weeks.

ApriCat · 17/10/2024 09:14

Radiatorvalves · 17/10/2024 08:47

Not sure of the rules, but be aware that probate is taking months at the moment. Expect at least 6 months.

Probate came through within a few weeks of applying for us (but getting all the information to apply in the first place took far longer).

TizerorFizz · 17/10/2024 09:16

@ILoveAnnaQuay My DM died recently, it was 2 days before exchange of contracts. As I had POW it does come to an end immediately and the exchange cannot happen. I’m afraid you are correct and your DN’s solicitor is wrong as they cannot possibly know who is executor and how big the estate is or how complex. However DN can wait of course.

When this happened to us, I was the executor of the will and as DM was also in a care home. I already had all the financial ducks in a row, so to speak, and from DM dying to getting Probate was 6 weeks. After the application was made, it took 3 weeks. This was because the estate was simple and organised. If the estate of the deceased is straightforward, yes, there will be a delay but not for long. If it’s complex, that’s entirely different.

Your DN should ask her solicitor to speak to the vendors solicitor to ascertsin from the vendor if there’s a reasonable chance of a quick probate. It’s not taking the time it says on the website. 3 weeks is the norm for straightforward probate and when someone is in a care home with POA held by a relative, I would expect the finances of the deceased to be organised as they will have paid fees.

In our case, the buyer walked but they had delayed the purchase for weeks! We found another very quickly after probate granted and the sale completed 8 weeks after that. Had solicitors not been on holiday, it would have been quicker! So DN should try and get more accurate info because size and complexity of estate matters. I would assume the property sale would be continued (with a delay) unless the will is unclear. I would maybe start looking around for alternatives and set a date where they walk away if no progress.

Hope that helps.

Redburnett · 17/10/2024 09:16

Probate for my deceased relative took less than 3 weeks very recently, it could be that solicitors are aware it is often done quite quickly.

soupfiend · 17/10/2024 09:22

With so many unknowns

Was there a will
How many beneficiaries
Are any abroad/difficult to contact
Is there IHT to pay before HMRC are happy, which will effect probate - needs to be paid up front, how do you pay it up front without the selling the house but cant sell the house without paying the IHT.... we had this
Are there any disputes
Are there other assets which need tying up/exploring

Right now, the house is now owned by the estate, not the owner and not overseen legally by the daughter anymore as her POA ended when he died. One assumes she is the executor but there may be several executors, do they all agree with each other?

Exchange unlikely within a week!!

unsync · 17/10/2024 09:23

If the Attorney was on the ball, all the deceased's paperwork should be ready for Probate purposes. PPs are correct in that Attorneyship dies with the donor, but if they are also Executor, that will help expedite as they will be familiar with the Estate.

soupfiend · 17/10/2024 09:24

unsync · 17/10/2024 09:23

If the Attorney was on the ball, all the deceased's paperwork should be ready for Probate purposes. PPs are correct in that Attorneyship dies with the donor, but if they are also Executor, that will help expedite as they will be familiar with the Estate.

She's also grieving of course....

marmiteisnttheonlyspread · 17/10/2024 09:27

I think your niece may have to wait until probate has been granted. The time to sort it is unpredictable.

My daughter pulled out of a purchase because probate (which they knew about) was delayed, then delayed again etc etc.

We are selling my Mum's house now as she has gone into care whilst she is fit and healthy (90 healthy! and dementia) because we don't want to avoid having a delayed house sale and an empty house.

We also have an independent fund to pay expenses needed before probate is granted. Sounds a bit cold - but it's not really.

DrinkElephants · 17/10/2024 09:30

My in laws were in this position very recently.

The vendor died (was in a care home) and POA were dealing with the sale. Literally exactly the same as you.

I have a feeling the vendor died in July and they completed on the house early October. They had to wait for probate to go through, so there would be a delay for your niece but I imagine less of a delay than finding another house and going through conveyancing again etc.

TizerorFizz · 17/10/2024 09:30

@soupfiend In my case, I found getting everything sorted was best. If an elderly person is very old and in a care home, you do know the outcome! Getting on with funeral and finance does actually help! I handed over to my solicitor and didn’t diy and getting probate isn’t the same as distribution to beneficiaries. However I gave full info to the estate agent about me being executor etc. Hopefully there will be clarity about the situation from this executor (s) too.

HotSource · 17/10/2024 09:31

It may well be true that is shouldn’t affect the sale as in it can still go ahead in due course if the executors agree… but there won’t be an exchange until probate has been granted.

The deceased owners Dd will naturally be dealing with the immediate emotional and practical aspects of her loss, and may not want to be immediately chased by her solicitor, but the things that will make a difference to the speed for your DNiece , and the questions her solicitor should ask are:
Is the Dd the executor?
Is it a straightforward will and estate?
Is there a charge on the property (it may be that the LA had a charge on the house to cover care home fees. It can take a while for the LA to remove the charge, and could include a clause in the sale contract about ££ from the sale going direct from the vendors solicitor to the LA. Every legal process takes t-i-m-e…)
Does the Dd (if the executor) still wish to pursue the sale. With the urgency of needing money to pay fees gone she might choose to re-market, or keep the house etc)

A sad situation, and bad luck for your DNiece.

Original poster
ILoveAnnaQuay · 17/10/2024 09:36

Thanks very much everyone. @TizerorFizz that's very helpful, it sounds like probate might be quite straightforward assuming there's no complicated estate.

@StillAtTheRestaurant the daughter doesn't have POA because her dad has died. So she can no longer authorise the sale of the property.

Niece said that solicitor has told her that this shouldn't hold up the move so it might be solicitor knows more. I will ask my niece to clarify. She is in rented so can hang on for a bit. I feel responsible as her family live abroad.

OP posts:
SheilaFentiman · 17/10/2024 09:39

I am glad DNiece hasn’t given notice on her rental, that would be tricky.

It is a very strange thing for the solicitor to stay and makes me worried for their competence!

Original poster
ILoveAnnaQuay · 17/10/2024 09:42

Dniece can sometimes be quite vague so I'm going to speak to her later to find out exactly what the solicitor said!

OP posts:
soupfiend · 17/10/2024 09:46

TizerorFizz · 17/10/2024 09:30

@soupfiend In my case, I found getting everything sorted was best. If an elderly person is very old and in a care home, you do know the outcome! Getting on with funeral and finance does actually help! I handed over to my solicitor and didn’t diy and getting probate isn’t the same as distribution to beneficiaries. However I gave full info to the estate agent about me being executor etc. Hopefully there will be clarity about the situation from this executor (s) too.

Good for you but not everyone reacts the same and there are lots of unknowns in families

My parents didnt DIY either, but probate took 4 years, yes that is extreme, 16 beneficiaries, many of which overseas, in armies couldnt be contacted etc etc

It was also over covid so apparently HMRC virtually shut down ( or so it often appeared)

Couldnt sell the property until probate, couldnt get probate without paying IHT, didnt have IHT money without selling the property and round and round it went

No will, another complication. Lots more complications that would take too long to type out

Hopefully none of this applies to OPs situation, Im merely pointing out when people glibly say this or that, there are many issues which can cause delay even with a solicitor working on it constantly.

(this was for a relative that we didnt really see either, not a close relationship as such)

Lemonadeand · 17/10/2024 09:47

TizerorFizz · 17/10/2024 09:16

@ILoveAnnaQuay My DM died recently, it was 2 days before exchange of contracts. As I had POW it does come to an end immediately and the exchange cannot happen. I’m afraid you are correct and your DN’s solicitor is wrong as they cannot possibly know who is executor and how big the estate is or how complex. However DN can wait of course.

When this happened to us, I was the executor of the will and as DM was also in a care home. I already had all the financial ducks in a row, so to speak, and from DM dying to getting Probate was 6 weeks. After the application was made, it took 3 weeks. This was because the estate was simple and organised. If the estate of the deceased is straightforward, yes, there will be a delay but not for long. If it’s complex, that’s entirely different.

Your DN should ask her solicitor to speak to the vendors solicitor to ascertsin from the vendor if there’s a reasonable chance of a quick probate. It’s not taking the time it says on the website. 3 weeks is the norm for straightforward probate and when someone is in a care home with POA held by a relative, I would expect the finances of the deceased to be organised as they will have paid fees.

In our case, the buyer walked but they had delayed the purchase for weeks! We found another very quickly after probate granted and the sale completed 8 weeks after that. Had solicitors not been on holiday, it would have been quicker! So DN should try and get more accurate info because size and complexity of estate matters. I would assume the property sale would be continued (with a delay) unless the will is unclear. I would maybe start looking around for alternatives and set a date where they walk away if no progress.

Hope that helps.

Why does it seem like the solicitors are always on holiday at the key moment!

harvestdesigns · 17/10/2024 09:48

We've just had probate of a simple estate with a will back within 15 days op, if that helps.

OurLadySaphire · 17/10/2024 09:54

Radiatorvalves · 17/10/2024 08:47

Not sure of the rules, but be aware that probate is taking months at the moment. Expect at least 6 months.

I got probate in 3 days last month!