Seller refusing to provide certificates/answer survey queries

[AmberMariens]

DH and I are buying a freehold property from a youngish widow (50s ish) who seems very unfamiliar with the process. She has been very difficult from the beginning, basically refusing to provide almost any certificates/reports/company warranties or get them done for things that are out of date eg FENSA stuff, electrical certificates, planning permission for loft conversion etc. The kind of basic stuff we had to provide when selling my flat and also my late parent’s home.

I believe she’s gone abroad for most of the year as she was trying to pressure us to exchange before she left, which we refused to do until we had at least some reports done (to try and keep the sale the agent actually agreed to pay for these as I pointed out we’d already spent a ton of money on the survey and solicitors fees and she hasn’t really shown much good faith at all).

But there are a number of outstanding queries that her solicitor is basically ignoring - we’ve now asked ours to ask explicitly whether he/his client are prepared to answer them. Would we be unreasonable to walk away if she refuses to provide this stuff?

I am aware she’s not obligated to answer or provide anything but when I was selling it was made out like I didn’t have a choice in providing various certificates and things and where I wasn’t able to I was made to pay for insurance.

I’m also aware some survey enquiries are arse-covering by the buyer’s solicitor but how do I know which ones are crucial (eg planning permission presumably) or could end up costing £££ down the line and which are nice but not integral?

Lastly, she also wants a two month window between exchange and completion, meaning we’ll have to stay longer in our rental. It seems quite a long time to me - has anyone experienced similar?

When people don’t provide legal documentation for things like buildings regs there’s a reason for it. Either they didn’t bother with it or the work was shoddy. If you really want the house, ask for insurance. If they refuse, then pull out.

The problem is the only insurance you're likely to get is lack of building regs indemnity insurance, which doesn't cover you if the work downs out to be below standard, only covers against enforcement by the local authority, the chances of which are around zero.

or the work was shoddy.

I don't think that's necessarily true.

My seller couldn't provide a FENSA certificate for my house and it was holding things up. I went on the website and saw there actually was a certificate for the property which would cost @ £60 to re-buy. I informed the seller but instead of buying one they took out insurance which cost £20, so much cheaper.

Despite the FENSA certificate, the window installation is shockingly bad!

When buying a house there are some things you just have to accept.

I'd walk on the basis I wouldn't agree to a 2 month "window" let alone anything else.

Thanks for all the advice, lots to think about here.

I’ve been at the other end of the demand for certificate requests and it is a pain in the arse.

One particularly annoying buyer picked on and insisted on indemnities for everything, thankfully we had a good solicitor. Esp’ when he came back after completion and tried to chase us down for compensation on the lack of log burner paperwork. He’d stated in the viewings that he would change it for a gas fire so we knew he was just bullshitting.

Our solicitor told them to jog on and take it up with their own solicitor. He then replied back stating that he would and to advise us to be more prudent next time - patronising f*cker!

I’ve been at the other end of the demand for certificate requests and it is a pain in the arse

It's a fundamental part of selling a house these days. Lawyers love a paper trail!

I agree asking for certificates for a log burner installation after completion is rather silly tho!

A Fensa certificate verifies that the warranty on your windows and doors is insured.
Window companies usually only do ten year warranties on their products so I'm assuming once they are over ten years old the windows are no longer covered by Fensa anyway.

I would push for building control/planning permission for the loft.
I would only do a fortnight between exchange and completion. Even a month is too long.
Those are the only two reasons I would walk away if I loved the house.

Don’t they just!

we’ve bought and sold far too many houses over the last 12 yrs (we’ve started to become a bit of a joke to our friends 🤭) and are in the process of doing so again due to a relocation. It’s got worse over the years in terms of indemnities for so many things.

So much so, that I looked at old paperwork for current sale house and discovered we’d paid £400 for drainage insurance following surveyors advice. We spend a fortune getting the drains fixed and I kicked myself that we could have got it through insurance, probably too late now!

Sadly this is often the case with electrical certificates, the market for EICRs is a cowboys paradise, plug a tester into a couple of sockets, put limitation in half the boxes and the maximum permitted value in the rest - job done! or not.

Happens in commercial too, recently went to look at work at a secondary school, the inspection over the whole site, 52 distribution boards (commercial equivalent of consumer unit) was not worth the paper it was written on, missed loads of faults, had to start again!

Depends if it’s appeared on the local search or not? If it has, then a BR cert has been issued, she just doesn’t have a copy of it - your solicitor (or hers) could approach LA for a duplicate copy but there’s really no need if it’s listed on the search, as it’s been issued

Two month window between exchange and completion would be an absolute no for me. A week or two at the outside.
The other things, it doesn't sound as if she actually wants to sell the house. Perhaps she isn't in the right place to actually do so, if recently widowed, despite knowing she needs to. Whatever the reason is, if either the buyer or seller isn't invested in the process, it is very difficult to make it happen. We had a seller like this in the past and ended up pulling out for this and other reasons. They lost several other sales too and never actually sold, despite being on the market for years.

This is the most frustrating thing. The first question I asked when I found out it was a probate sale was “Is she motivated to sell?” Because I had literally just sold my late parent’s flat and it took me a long time partly because I wanted the time and space to go through every single item in the flat and have a chance to grieve and dispose of it ethically. So I have total sympathy. Of course the agent said she was motivated to sell but it certainly doesn’t seem like it to me. Or she used to let the DH take care of everything and is not accepting that she is now the one who is responsible.

The DH died over a year ago and she was looking to downsize but both times we visited there were adult children living/working there (shushing us as we walked into one of the bedrooms to view it) so even if she’s motivated to sell I question if they are.

I ‘ve been a seller too and know how annoying the survey enquiries can be but to not even make a cursory effort to answer them is not very helpful or respectful of someone who wants to give you hundreds of thousands of pounds.

@AmberMariens as you say, it sounds as if either she/her adult children or all of them don't want to sell. Perhaps they are putting pressure on her not to downsize because they live there. Whatever the case, it sounds as if you just need to pull out and move on.

I’d walk away. Plenty of things are nice to haves- like a boiler service certificate- but could cost you £1000s if it’s knackered. We had to provide all sorts Inc FENSA, planning/extension approvals, gas certificate, electrical certs, even a survey on the new rendering when we moved as our home was old, it was a pain but still did it and it didn’t cost much for someone to do quick checks and hand over the certificate.
m you’ve spent money of surveyors and solicitors- but if yoU end up buying a
sodgy probably the costs will never end!

OK on PP it depends on WHEN the conversion was done as it might fall under permitted development. In any case it doesn't really matter after 7 years.

What you do want to see is Building Regulations Approval which will tell you if it is built to the correct specs for safety, structure and so on. You can find that on the local authority planning website if you take a look by address and "other documents associated to this address" or similar. If its older that 10-15 years you may not be able to get it and then may have to write to the department to ask for their records. Her solicitor should do this but nothing stopping you.

The other stuff doesn't really matter. You can get an electrical check done, or knock money off in anticipation of rewiring.

Fensa is rubbish. Are the windows OK, double glazing not blown and working OK. Just check them all.

I'd be taking your solicitors advice on the delay between exchange and completion, but I would be uncomfortable. You would need to insure the building yourself. Also your mortgage offer CAN be pulled in that window and you would be up a dark alley if you have an exchanged contract and no funds to complete.

Certificates - I wouldn't get worked up about those. I don't have most of ours, not trying to hide anything and it isn't shoddy work, we have just been here a really long time and haven't been planning to move. We got stuff done for ourselves, when it was needed. Plus DH deals with all that stuff! (PP excepted, but you don't need the seller to address that).

I assume your solicitor would advise you not to go for the 2 month gap, just say no, that doesn't work for you.

It'll be worth it in the end!

I never knew about the possibility of a mortgage being pulled after exchange. That's a frightening thought.

I recently sold my house and had 6 months between exchange and completion! I did keep up the insurance plus I repaired everything that needed repairing, and made sure the house was in good condition. The buyers and all lawyers were happy with the gap.

I didn't provide electrical certificates as most of the electrics were done prior to me buying it and the seller didn't have them! Electrics go out of date very quickly too.

I did do a boiler service (20 year old boiler but a good one), and also had no fensa certificates for my windows despite them being recent. So long as your seller has sign off for any building work done in the last 10 years or so (which they should be able to get easily by contacting the local council - I couldn't find one certificate, emailed them and they sent me in a copy in an hour) I wouldn't be too worried.

It's astonishingly rare. And really only happens if there's been a significant change in circumstances, or it is discovered that the information provided during the application was inaccurate.

In a situation where there happens to be a 2 month gap between exchanging and completing you would have a clause in the contract that the seller would continue building insurance until completion.

>visited there were adult children living/working there (shushing us as we walked into one of the bedrooms to view it)

SHUSHING you?

Omg, no. How incredibly rude.

They are not selling that house.

The reason she wants 2 months between exchange and completion is to try to talk her kids into moving out / giving herself time to find homes for them.

I'd nope right out of there.